This is very much a scam.
Celsius are trading their way out of insolvency, when they should be going into administration and let professional liquidators decide the future course of action
Mashinsky ran this fund into the ground.. and then is now trying to revive it himself
All with users funds
Fucking disgusting
They're also censoring negative posts on their subreddit.
If you google "reveddit CelsiusNetwork" you can see the massive number of posts that CelsiusNetwork mods are removing.
The ones that say "Removed by reddit (spam)" were most likely removed by mods using automod settings, you can see by the content of the posts that they aren't actually spam in most cases.
And most likely they will make the wrong bet again, shorting the market while it sharply rebounces, armature trader's first lesson, buy high and sell low
Welcome to DeFi. We have so many laws against this in traditional finance to the point where managers doing this go jail. If a fund becomes insolvent there's no downside to just gambling with the users funds. If you succeed stuff probably blows over and you can keep running if you don't you're in the same boat as you were before you started gambling.
Celsius isnt defi. Its a fund registered in USA. Its totally a centralised company offering depositors interest on their deposits.
The only reason this falls outside the boundaries of current laws is because the existing securities act doesnt quite define these tokens as securities. So a centralised company is exploiting this loophole to run a completely unregulated hedge fund.
Yeah you are right, in traditional finance this doesnt happen as a fund seeking users deposits in USD via regular banking system has a lot of rules and regulations to follow., especially when it runs into financial difficulties. It is a registered hedge fund. Celsius is using crypto tokens, so there are no laws for this atm - its running an unregulated hedge fund.
I still haven't figured out what the product is for reddit...but I really enjoy that they give me a free platform to constantly engage on, while i sometimes click on ads...
Or autism, depression or one of 1000 other self diagnoses that the user base loves to pretend they have at a far higher rate than the general population.
Here's this pretty much confirmed by one of the devs of Bancor:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2mVaPFFdoE&t=3120s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2mVaPFFdoE&t=3120s)
52m mark.
Most people are already aware of what the lending protocols are doing for the lending-to-short part. Most are totally okay with it. What people might not aware of is the other ways of generating yield.
Take for example celsius had used anchor and badger to generate yield. Most don’t know until we heard the news that these protocols are compromised.
For me personally i am okay with this because :
1. Short needs to cover eventually
2. It’s not like they could short BTC to 0, even if BTC goes to 0, that would probably highlight a deeper issue, and secondly it doesn’t matter whether where I put money if the value of it is 0
My question is what to do if I have funds in Celsius? I could move my coins to a cold wallet, but that resets the timer on when I can sell without paying higher taxes. Wondering if there's a chance I could lose out on anything that isn't insured if Celsius goes under.
Pfft. Proof. Like anyone has time for that around here. 🤣
But in all seriousness, yeah, I mean, it's quite possibly what's happening, since it isn't all that weird a concept in finance. But crypto has a ton of people who grab one or two bits of evidence and then feel confident in filling in everything else with broad assumptions that have no real evidence.
Yep. Very common around here. It's the same way all the Tether FUD works. It's all stuff that could be true, but has no real proof either for or against, and so has massive holes in evidence filled with assumptions.
Lmao the Tether FUD is that they haven’t once proved that USDT is backed up by stable collateral like USD, the wholes in the evidence is cuz Tether won’t ever fill the holes up with real evidence. Lack of evidence over years of given the opportunity to provide it is proof in itself
Shorting in this market seems like easy money. So they're doing the right thing: Making profit off users funds so they can buy their new lambos before telling their users its all gone.
around the time the funds were changed, BTC was around 18k. So if they shorted at that time, then they would have lost money since market has recovered a little bit since then.
You heard about the whale that avoided $140m liq by 20 dollars, even though on most CEXs, the price went below the liq price. I shat bricks and I'm not involved.
Fascinating. Thank you. And, just to be clear, if the price had gone lower, it would have triggered an automatic sale at any price of 152,000 eth? Wow. Now looking at the guy selling $160M of SOL if it ever reaches $22
Edited to add the 160
I mean... Its not their money they are gambling with anyway. There is no difference to them if the company declare bankruptcy with 1 million dollars debt vs 1 billion dollars debt.
Shorting in this market is extremely difficult. Just look at the volatility. Nobody can predict where it’s going to move an hour from now. And, as most of these blockchains have no intrinsic value, or revenue/growth guidance to look for, I’d say it’s impossible to know what the fair price is. If you don’t know what the fair price is, how can it be easy to bet on the market value of the tokens (as a representative of the underlying fully diluted market cap)?
You could argue that you could make a play in relation to market sentiment, or “momentum”, but that’s highly risky and very difficult to time: How do you know when sentiment changes?
Reminds me of a company who's lawyers agreed they owed me 6 digits preceding the decimal point. The company exec's all voted to pay themselves massive bonuses (million$) then file for bankruptcy. 7+ years later, I ended up with a check with 4 digits preceding the decimal point. While it feels extremely fraudulent (and I could get more $$ after a LOT of effort if I could prove fraud ... but it's very hard), I was frustrated and cashed the check and paid off all my credit card debt.
If they don't trade on lev and currently has a position in lets say btc, they could be hedging instead of naked shorting.
Naked shorting/trading on lev is where it'll all implode.
what's funny is that usually after a steep drop, the market bounces back a little. If they shorted the market at the low, a market rise may cause them to get margin called faster.
Same holds for banks with fractional-reserve banking, but that's tightly regulated, especially since the 2007 financial crisis. In crypto however, who knows how well it's regulated, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they would be gambling away everybody's funds before disappearing off the face of the earth.
Not sure it helps to watch the video after you got **cked. Not convinced that’s the best way to deal with trauma. My understanding was the purpose was to create a trustless system where one could confirm that Party A had the promised funds for a transaction without contact with Party A. Seems recent events have required a fair amount of trust and resulted in violations of trust (SURPRISE!!). Ima re-evaluate my strategies and unless there’s a material benefit to exchange holding (card stakes, lowered fees, etc.) I don’t think ima keep enough on exchanges anymore for there to be any material benefits from the “earn” programs.
I do too. Some market makers are gonna see this and Celsius is gonna go ”tits up” because of it. All they need to do is Pump the market, liquidate celsius and scoop up even cheaper BTC.
You want to see real denial?
Hop on the celsius sub - I saw a post there telling people to deposit more money into Celsius and hold it there for the next 10 years to keep Celsius afloat.
Insane!
Not really suprising. There’s people who’ve potentially lost everything they had in this, it’s not shocking that they’d go to any length to keep Celsius afloat on the off chance they could avoid financial ruin.
Desperate situations call for desperate measures and that’s what you’re seeing over in that sub
Mate, depositing assets in a CEX does not necessarily mean they are speculating. There are many strategies they could be deploying that remain long LINK.
Isn't it normal to try and recover by shorting your losing assets? Lose on one side, recover the loses on the other one? Isn't what big financial institutions do? Legit question
The idea is to use shorting as an insurance before you lose money.
It’s the same as with everything else, if you lose money, spending more money to try and win that money back can be a very bad idea.
For real, the vast majority of crypto's value / market cap is based on pure gambling. Crypto will continue to be hugely volatile for as long as the main reason people put money in it is gambling.
What? You say blockchain is open, say what the did on there is good and then speculate on what they're doing on FTX eventhough you have no clue what they're doing? This post is just bs
That too, a lot of people are worrying about stuff like that were less than $50M of assets are involved when Celsius has been handling billions for at least 2 years. And in this case it's $35M and they're just talking bs about what they're doing using dumb and unfounded arguments
When you withdraw to a CEX it is to sell. Selling an asset is equivalent to a short in the case of Celsius, because they have to repay their assets to their customers.
Celsius is underwater as evidenced by withdrawals halting, yet instead of unwinding and putting assets back that they have left, they are doubling down by engaging in trading behavior.
You are making assumptions that are literally untrue. You can send to an CEX for custodial reasons, margin reasons, lending reasons and selling. Also selling something is not the same thing as shorting something, shorting something implies you are selling an asset you need to repurchase to make a delivery to someone else.
Damn, this is getting worse and worse. If they ever unlock their clients accounts, which they probably won't, lets hope people remember these dirty deeds.
From Celsius' terms page:
>YOUR CELSIUS ACCOUNT IS NOT A BANK ACCOUNT, DEPOSIT ACCOUNT, SAVINGS ACCOUNTS, CHECKING ACCOUNT, OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ASSET ACCOUNT AND SHOULD NOT BE CHARACTERIZED AS A BANKING PRODUCT OR SERVICE. THE USE OF TERMS SUCH AS “ACCOUNT,” “ACCOUNT BALANCE,” “WITHDRAW” AND SIMILAR LANGUAGE IN CONNECTION WITH THE EARN SERVICE AND THE BORROW SERVICE (SEE FURTHER SECTIONS 4(D) AND 4(E) BELOW, RESPECTIVELY) DOES NOT IMPLY OR ESTABLISH, AND SHALL NOT BE TAKEN TO SUGGEST, ANY FORM OF CUSTODY RELATIONSHIP, AND SUCH LANGUAGE IS USED HEREIN AS TERMS OF CONVENIENCE ONLY IN REFERRING TO USERS’ BORROWING OR LENDING OF DIGITAL ASSETS TO OR FROM CELSIUS AS PART OF THE EARN SERVICE AND BORROW SERVICE, AND CELSIUS’ OBLIGATION TO TRANSFER DIGITAL ASSETS TO USERS UPON THE TERMINATION OF SUCH LOANS OR REPAYMENT OF SUCH BORROWING IN CONNECTION WITH THESE SERVICES.
Any money "deposited" into Celsius was actually "loaned" to them. They used those loans to gamble on crypto and now users are SOL
You cant make this shit up.
For people who still dont understand what Celsius really is, let me ELI5:
Imagine you used DeFi for the first time and found stuff(ponzis) like Anchor Protocol, that promise you 19% yield on your crypto deposits.
You deposit your few thousands bucks into it and it really pays out.
So what do you now? You cant get rich of 19% yield on a few thousand bucks.
You make a business out of it. You promise clueless retail investors 9% yield on their deposits to you. So you can cash in the 10% delta.
Now, there are thousands of protocols like Anchor, which promise high yields. So you "diversify" into different DeFi Protocols.
Everyone who is long enough in crypto knows that this yields are unsustainable and these ponzi protocols blow up sooner or later.
But that shouldnt hurt you since you are not using your own money but your customers money!
But this way you can only make a few % and not get super rich really quick. So you release a Token! "Why would someone buy your token?"
Because you promise them a higher yield on their "investments".
Then you sell millions of your own tokens to clueless retail investors who think they are investing in a "new type of crypto bank that really looks legit! Look at their website!!".
So basically, you invest your customers money into ponzi schemes, release a useless token to promise them more ponzi yield. And when the market takes a nosedive and these yieldfarm ponzis collapse you didnt really lose anything because you dont have to pay your customers the money back but can keep the millions of your own token sale.
Its insane! We need regulation and some kind of new laws to send these people into jail. Thats straight up robbery and idiocy thats super forbidden in the real traditional finance world.
And in fact you write into your terms of usage that retail investers don't make a deposit but an unsecured loan to you. So your not even obliged to pay back. Clever.
Good example is a company called "Stablegains". They promised 15% on their customers and threw all money into anchor, pocketing the difference. They lost millions of customers funds.
Why do you assume the tokens are sent to FTX for speculative purposes ? Couldn't they have made an agreement of sorts with FTX, getting LINK for cash or ETH ?
Selling LINK for cash/ETH is the equivalent of a short. Any asset they sell or trade at this point is speculative behaviour, instead they should be putting assets back in their wallets so users can start withdrawing what is left
Instead they are continuing to trade in the hopes of making back the deficit they lost. Doubling down.
Why do it with just a bit of LINK though. Celsius can unwind all the borrows leaving them still exposed to client loans. In fact, they could have just done it prior to announcing the withdrawal freeze. Freeze was near certain to cause a crash, would have profited massively on the short exposure.
Wondering that myself. My Papaw had a couple of saying. 1. If you mess with chicken shit long enough ur bound to get some on you. 2. If you lay down with dogs you’ll wake up with fleas. The jist of both is fairly true and it does seem that FTX seems to be catastrophe adjacent an awful lot. I also can’t square in my mind how it is that SBF is operating in the space he is and yet politically aligned with non-capitalists. He’s got a Clayton Bigsby vibe.
[https://debank.com/profile/0x76a05277b81b9ca6c06c9ab4136116fc53e9c9e1/history](https://debank.com/profile/0x76a05277b81b9ca6c06c9ab4136116fc53e9c9e1/history)
[https://etherscan.io/tx/0x085159d90f864f246386e4d3c099c527d59c6227188bf40cfce2a324840b2b1a](https://etherscan.io/tx/0x085159d90f864f246386e4d3c099c527d59c6227188bf40cfce2a324840b2b1a)
This is where the LINK ended up. What does "Contract Interaction" imply?
Bit of a question then... if FTX/Alameda is trying to exact revenge (allegedly) for Celsius exiting Luna and not telling anyone. Why are they using FTX at all?
Really there is insufficient evidence to say that Celsius is "openly shorting" those assets "on the open market". The blockchain only takes you so far.
If you've kept your coins with a cryptocurrency exchange or CeFi service, you're effectively taking a short position without even realising because they lend it to those who inturn use leverage and take a short position.
I mean celsius very clearly has lost all their customers money, Ans now like a degenerate alcoholic gambler is convinced they can win it all back tomorrow down the dog races and no one will be any the wiser.
This is a huge problem since it's a massive warning sign for how the company is run and it's long term prospects. Look up Baring bank or the sumitumo copper affair for examples of this.
And to think, just back in April, they told stakers they were kicking them off their platform unless they were "accredited" investors...that is, investors that could prove their net worth was over 200K.
In life, whenever someone asks you for accreditation, always check theirs first.
I will add to this, that similar transactions can be found for CeFi exchanges Okex and Nexo. Okex is even exposed openly in LINK shorts on their DeFi Aave contracts.
[https://etherscan.io/token/0x0b8f12b1788BFdE65Aa1ca52E3e9F3Ba401be16D#balances](https://etherscan.io/token/0x0b8f12b1788BFdE65Aa1ca52E3e9F3Ba401be16D#balances)
These are the major LINK short holders on AaveV2. The top 5 wallets are all funded from Okex.
The first liquidations of these exchanges start when LINK/ETH starts hitting 0.007 on the ETH pair (against which it has been gaining)
Major liquidations start around 0.009-0.01.
Get off "yield"
You are shorting your own holdings.
Alameda gon give it to ya.
Acknowledging who Alameda is should be something you have to do with your lawyer before you buy crypto.
It's why you should avoid SOL and USDT.
It's not a Ponzi. It's Alameda. Learn that saying.
Everything's right in front of you. Why do you think Celsius is sending your money to FTX? FTX is Alameda. Why do you think SBF bankrolls politicians?
Because regulation should make them illegal.
If you are going to buy, do not keep anything on exchanges.
GTF off exchanges take no "yield". Market liquidity is dominated by shorts right now.
Good thing with normal banks is they arent like Celsius.
Everyone thats ever had a bank (in the US) lock everyone's funds with little hope they would unlock them, please raise your hands.
Oh come on, I never had a bank tell me my money is not there and I will not be able to retrieve it.
In my country there’s also an 100.000 euro per person bank security so I will always be able to withdraw. Nice right .
The federal government can see what normal chartered banks are doing. Every detail of it.
It's been about a century since any American consumer banking customer lost a dime in a failed bank.
I can’t make a Reddit post so I’ll just say it here. Stop saying BTC will take over currencies.
How do I explain this… The value on BTC is determined in USD. Therefore, the valuable currency here is obviously the USD. How can BTC take over any currency when it needs to be valued by a currency?
Let’s say the whole world gets rid of their currency. And we have 1.8 million BTC circulating in between 7.9 billion people (rough estimates of world population). That’s 0.000278 BTC for every person.
How do you even buy grocery with that? Get paid from your job? 40 hour job now pays 0.0000000001 BTC? A piece of celery costs 0.000000000000378 BTC?
Because as all these crypto fanboys said, BTC is the future currency. So tell me how will the world work with 1.8m BTC while population’s ever growing?
At the end of the day, BTC will just be translated to another currency where the rich 0.1% will have like 10 BTC while someone in Africa may have 0.00000000000000000000000001 BTC.
It doesn’t work, does it.
As I’ve said, BTC’s value is determined by USD, and therefore, USD is the only reason BTC has any value whatsoever. Imagine you have 100 BTC but you can’t sell it for usd nor can you buy any groceries with it. Not very useful is it. Even a rock’s more useful for being a rock.
If you really believe crypto to be the future of all currencies, then, that means you never want to have usd (or any other currencies) ever again. Because you believe that in future, everyone will use BTC only.
Truth is, all of you are buying BTC because you want your $100 UNITED STATES DOLLARS to become $500 UNITED STATES DOLLARS. You don’t believe in BTC. You’re only gambling for your USD to increase in value.
So tell me again that BTC is going to take over the world as the future of currency?
Wake the fk up.
One bitcoin can be divided into up to eight decimal places, with constituent units called satoshis.
BTC replacing the USD marketcap would put it at approx $1m at current rates.
That means 1 Satoshi (smallest amount of BTC) would be worth 1 cent.
Additionally, BTC can be divided down into even smaller units on the lightning network, which would ostensibly be used for everyday transactions (and already is in El Salvador)
I can't wait for the future where I get paid in BTC, exchange it for ETH, buy NFT links to images of carrots and then cruise down to my local supermarket to exchange it for real carrots
It's a bright future ahead
The currency has a value in USD because that’s the exchange rate. You know like every other currency on the planet there is an exchange rate.
Also with Bitcoin, it would be measured in “Sats”.
Nice try though.
I never said Bitcoin is going to take over all currencies.
There will always be currencies issued by governments.
I’m just saying it’s a moot point to discredit Bitcoin when it has an exchange rate. Because all currencies have one.
Also last time I checked all fiat currencies have different buying power. For example the USD is worth more than other currencies.
I understand your argument and your point. I’d like to add to this. All I’m saying is we should explain what BTC is for what it really is.
BTC existed to buy things you don’t want to be caught buying. An untraceable medium of currency exchange. That’s all it is. It’s not going to become the next currency nor will every grocery will be adapting this inconvenience (imagine labeling all your grocery price in 0.00….1 BTC).
People betting their life savings when they see news that Tesla are accepting BTC. This creates a false sense of use for BTC and it eventually got worse to a point where people thinks it’s the dominance currency in years to come.
I hope this makes sense.
If you don't know source of yield, you're the yield. People learn hard way
And don't be someone else exit liquidity
This is very much a scam. Celsius are trading their way out of insolvency, when they should be going into administration and let professional liquidators decide the future course of action Mashinsky ran this fund into the ground.. and then is now trying to revive it himself All with users funds Fucking disgusting
They're also censoring negative posts on their subreddit. If you google "reveddit CelsiusNetwork" you can see the massive number of posts that CelsiusNetwork mods are removing. The ones that say "Removed by reddit (spam)" were most likely removed by mods using automod settings, you can see by the content of the posts that they aren't actually spam in most cases.
But banks are evil… what a tool
And most likely they will make the wrong bet again, shorting the market while it sharply rebounces, armature trader's first lesson, buy high and sell low
I don’t mind them trying to trade themselves back to solvency.
If they manage to trade themselves out, great. The issue is if they end up losing even more, they lose our money, not their.
Do you have money with them
I had 12k
12k .sad... nyk nyc. satoshi lesson for you
Thats how they are going insolvebt in the first place! You must be trolling.
Welcome to DeFi. We have so many laws against this in traditional finance to the point where managers doing this go jail. If a fund becomes insolvent there's no downside to just gambling with the users funds. If you succeed stuff probably blows over and you can keep running if you don't you're in the same boat as you were before you started gambling.
Celsius isnt defi. Its a fund registered in USA. Its totally a centralised company offering depositors interest on their deposits. The only reason this falls outside the boundaries of current laws is because the existing securities act doesnt quite define these tokens as securities. So a centralised company is exploiting this loophole to run a completely unregulated hedge fund. Yeah you are right, in traditional finance this doesnt happen as a fund seeking users deposits in USD via regular banking system has a lot of rules and regulations to follow., especially when it runs into financial difficulties. It is a registered hedge fund. Celsius is using crypto tokens, so there are no laws for this atm - its running an unregulated hedge fund.
Wait so I shouldn’t…just buy the dip?
Not this dip, but tomorrows dip. Or day after. Or day after that. Or day after that…or… TLDR: Just DCA.
You should! In an index fund.
Well even i wouldn't touch an index fund at the beginning of a bear market Best to wait a few months
"Beginning of a bear market" Cryptocurrency subreddits in a nutshell.
Or bitcoin
That's too
Shit, I identify as exit liquidity...
Bring it in… 
Reminds me of Rounders. "If you can't tell the sucker within 30 minutes of sitting down at a table, you are the sucker"
> If you can't **spot** the sucker ...
Yeah that sounds about right, not bad for doing it from memory though lol
What if you spot 3 suckers? Do you go beast mode or take it easy on em?
Im a winning poker player, and the sucker can be on fucking fire for hours. Rounders is fun, but dont watch it to learn how to play.
Everything about how crypto has been sold for the last decade has screamed that anyone investing in it is the sucker.
The same goes for: If you don´t know the product, you´re the product...
I still haven't figured out what the product is for reddit...but I really enjoy that they give me a free platform to constantly engage on, while i sometimes click on ads...
From roaming through some of the subs, I’d say the product that Reddit produces is cancer…
Or autism, depression or one of 1000 other self diagnoses that the user base loves to pretend they have at a far higher rate than the general population.
Narrative formation, just look at r/politics
If you can't liquidate, don't be the liquidity
If the product is free like Facebook,,, Then you are the product.
Here's this pretty much confirmed by one of the devs of Bancor: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2mVaPFFdoE&t=3120s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2mVaPFFdoE&t=3120s) 52m mark.
Most people are already aware of what the lending protocols are doing for the lending-to-short part. Most are totally okay with it. What people might not aware of is the other ways of generating yield. Take for example celsius had used anchor and badger to generate yield. Most don’t know until we heard the news that these protocols are compromised. For me personally i am okay with this because : 1. Short needs to cover eventually 2. It’s not like they could short BTC to 0, even if BTC goes to 0, that would probably highlight a deeper issue, and secondly it doesn’t matter whether where I put money if the value of it is 0
Hard to keep a ponzi going when there are no more people buying in. And hard to imagine many people choosing to put more money into Celsius right now
My question is what to do if I have funds in Celsius? I could move my coins to a cold wallet, but that resets the timer on when I can sell without paying higher taxes. Wondering if there's a chance I could lose out on anything that isn't insured if Celsius goes under.
Only a sale or buy triggers a taxable event or new cost basis
I knew why I didn't give my funds to lending platforms. Better stake than sorry.
If you don't know why a transaction happened, don't speculate on Reddit.
People who yolo someone's retirement money deserve special place in hell.
proof of shorting??
There is none. However I'd love to hear your take on what legitimate actions they could be taking transferring millions to FTX.
Pfft. Proof. Like anyone has time for that around here. 🤣 But in all seriousness, yeah, I mean, it's quite possibly what's happening, since it isn't all that weird a concept in finance. But crypto has a ton of people who grab one or two bits of evidence and then feel confident in filling in everything else with broad assumptions that have no real evidence.
quite possibly = trust me bro. All I see on the chain are transfers to FTX, you can't see which position they took with it
Yep. Very common around here. It's the same way all the Tether FUD works. It's all stuff that could be true, but has no real proof either for or against, and so has massive holes in evidence filled with assumptions.
Lmao the Tether FUD is that they haven’t once proved that USDT is backed up by stable collateral like USD, the wholes in the evidence is cuz Tether won’t ever fill the holes up with real evidence. Lack of evidence over years of given the opportunity to provide it is proof in itself
>proof of shorting?? Is that the latest blockchain protocol?
OP has none.
OP, where is the proof that Celsius transferred to FTX for the purpose of shorting CEL?
Yeah that's kind of a critical piece of info that is just....missing
It's not missing. OP pulled it out of their ass.
A lot of CEL critics have no actual proof. For me CEL drama seems more of a coordinated attack against it.
So they are gambling with customer funds? What could possibly go wrong
Shorting in this market seems like easy money. So they're doing the right thing: Making profit off users funds so they can buy their new lambos before telling their users its all gone.
And then the market unexpectedly rallies, and they lose more funds chasing crowded short trades.
around the time the funds were changed, BTC was around 18k. So if they shorted at that time, then they would have lost money since market has recovered a little bit since then.
Oh, if the shorts become too heavy, someone's gonna liq them all up. The market is ripe for a short sequeeze.
That would be glorious ngl
You heard about the whale that avoided $140m liq by 20 dollars, even though on most CEXs, the price went below the liq price. I shat bricks and I'm not involved.
What?? Do you have more details?
https://www.business2community.com/crypto-news/eth-whale-liquidation-price-missed-by-20-cents-02507294
Fascinating. Thank you. And, just to be clear, if the price had gone lower, it would have triggered an automatic sale at any price of 152,000 eth? Wow. Now looking at the guy selling $160M of SOL if it ever reaches $22 Edited to add the 160
I'm high as fuck right now, so I cant be a reliable witness. There was a post about it in cc though.
So are they freezing peoples accounts while simultaneously shorting the market to make a profit of of it?
I mean... Its not their money they are gambling with anyway. There is no difference to them if the company declare bankruptcy with 1 million dollars debt vs 1 billion dollars debt.
Shorting in this market is extremely difficult. Just look at the volatility. Nobody can predict where it’s going to move an hour from now. And, as most of these blockchains have no intrinsic value, or revenue/growth guidance to look for, I’d say it’s impossible to know what the fair price is. If you don’t know what the fair price is, how can it be easy to bet on the market value of the tokens (as a representative of the underlying fully diluted market cap)? You could argue that you could make a play in relation to market sentiment, or “momentum”, but that’s highly risky and very difficult to time: How do you know when sentiment changes?
So this is why we haven't been falling more. Good old short squeeze
Haha. Its gonna go bad I promise, no lambo here in this megabrain tactic
Sigh. That’ll be the day of the pump and THEN the announcement goes up like you said lol
If they can short everything to zero then they can hand back everyone's crypto.
"Here guys, we are returning all of your coins but they are all worth $0. Dont forget to diamond hand them!"
Reminds me of a company who's lawyers agreed they owed me 6 digits preceding the decimal point. The company exec's all voted to pay themselves massive bonuses (million$) then file for bankruptcy. 7+ years later, I ended up with a check with 4 digits preceding the decimal point. While it feels extremely fraudulent (and I could get more $$ after a LOT of effort if I could prove fraud ... but it's very hard), I was frustrated and cashed the check and paid off all my credit card debt.
If they don't trade on lev and currently has a position in lets say btc, they could be hedging instead of naked shorting. Naked shorting/trading on lev is where it'll all implode.
what's funny is that usually after a steep drop, the market bounces back a little. If they shorted the market at the low, a market rise may cause them to get margin called faster.
technically all fund managers and hedge funds does this
Same holds for banks with fractional-reserve banking, but that's tightly regulated, especially since the 2007 financial crisis. In crypto however, who knows how well it's regulated, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if they would be gambling away everybody's funds before disappearing off the face of the earth.
Always has been 💰 👨 🔫 👨
They were always gambling with customer funds.
Yeah this couldn't possibly end poorly, right? /s
What do you wanna bet the geniuses used leverage? Try to make it all back in one (or a few) moves
Celsius went from a wannabe bank to straight up locking people out of their money and turned it to a hedge fund.
They made it. They are a bank now.
If they were a bank, depositors would be made whole by insurance.
They are a bank from the 1920s...
Banks are regulated,..
Only banks that participate in FDIC insurance are
Classic bank move circa 2007
? I am unaware of any FDIC insured bank account losing money in 2007.
If you were over $250k in an account with a bank that went under, you lost the difference. Granted I'm sure that wasn't many.
Featuring Celsius as the bank Starring Mads Mikkelsen
Unbank yourself, so that we can bank off you.
Crypto is good, Banks are bad, buy crypto now! Oh boy, how the tables have turnt
One of the major advantages of crypto if you ask me. I really like that it is so transparent.
Not sure it helps to watch the video after you got **cked. Not convinced that’s the best way to deal with trauma. My understanding was the purpose was to create a trustless system where one could confirm that Party A had the promised funds for a transaction without contact with Party A. Seems recent events have required a fair amount of trust and resulted in violations of trust (SURPRISE!!). Ima re-evaluate my strategies and unless there’s a material benefit to exchange holding (card stakes, lowered fees, etc.) I don’t think ima keep enough on exchanges anymore for there to be any material benefits from the “earn” programs.
I do too. Some market makers are gonna see this and Celsius is gonna go ”tits up” because of it. All they need to do is Pump the market, liquidate celsius and scoop up even cheaper BTC.
No one can hide with a transparent blockchain...
yeah, that is the whole deal of it, Blockchain is supposed to be a public track record so we can track illicit activity of politicians, companies etc.
I thought anonymity and immunity from government intervention was the point?
pseudonymity and immunity which both are still the case
Anonymity and Privacy are not the same thing.
You want to see real denial? Hop on the celsius sub - I saw a post there telling people to deposit more money into Celsius and hold it there for the next 10 years to keep Celsius afloat. Insane!
Sounds like the terraluna sub
"When is Luna 3.0 going to launch?" "Don't worry, we will definitely go back at least to $40!"
You see it everywhere. Safemoon, Luna, Celsius. Stockholm Syndrome at its finest...
r/wishstock my guilty pleasure
Im sure its the Celcius founder.
"guys we need to help Celsius avoid liquidation pls put more money in" Unreal.
What is the name of the sub
/r/celsiusnetwork not to be confused with /r/celciusnetwork
No way
Not really suprising. There’s people who’ve potentially lost everything they had in this, it’s not shocking that they’d go to any length to keep Celsius afloat on the off chance they could avoid financial ruin. Desperate situations call for desperate measures and that’s what you’re seeing over in that sub
Mate, depositing assets in a CEX does not necessarily mean they are speculating. There are many strategies they could be deploying that remain long LINK.
Isn't it normal to try and recover by shorting your losing assets? Lose on one side, recover the loses on the other one? Isn't what big financial institutions do? Legit question
Yea hedging with shorts isn't uncommon at all.
The idea is to use shorting as an insurance before you lose money. It’s the same as with everything else, if you lose money, spending more money to try and win that money back can be a very bad idea.
You don't do that after already sustaining the loss
You have no idea why they're making these moves or what their plans are
They are gambling like every one of us.
Isn't that the only purpose of crypto?
No, but that is what it became.
For real, the vast majority of crypto's value / market cap is based on pure gambling. Crypto will continue to be hugely volatile for as long as the main reason people put money in it is gambling.
*No they are in it for the tech* 👀
At least we’re gambling with our own money.
Or the exchange's when we lever up lol
What? You say blockchain is open, say what the did on there is good and then speculate on what they're doing on FTX eventhough you have no clue what they're doing? This post is just bs
35m within multi bilion assets is nothing . People want show how they are smart.
That too, a lot of people are worrying about stuff like that were less than $50M of assets are involved when Celsius has been handling billions for at least 2 years. And in this case it's $35M and they're just talking bs about what they're doing using dumb and unfounded arguments
When you withdraw to a CEX it is to sell. Selling an asset is equivalent to a short in the case of Celsius, because they have to repay their assets to their customers. Celsius is underwater as evidenced by withdrawals halting, yet instead of unwinding and putting assets back that they have left, they are doubling down by engaging in trading behavior.
You are making assumptions that are literally untrue. You can send to an CEX for custodial reasons, margin reasons, lending reasons and selling. Also selling something is not the same thing as shorting something, shorting something implies you are selling an asset you need to repurchase to make a delivery to someone else.
Please read the comment the other person made and stop making up stuff
You have no idea what you're talking about.
You don't know what they're doing on FTX, and selling is not shorting. You're either grossly misinformed or a drama queen.
If they don't trade on lev and currently has a position in lets say btc, they could be hedging instead of pure shorting.
There’s no proof here of any of this shorting
Damn, this is getting worse and worse. If they ever unlock their clients accounts, which they probably won't, lets hope people remember these dirty deeds.
Oh they most certainly will not unlock.
I sincerely hope I´m wrong, but I also don´t see this happening...
From Celsius' terms page: >YOUR CELSIUS ACCOUNT IS NOT A BANK ACCOUNT, DEPOSIT ACCOUNT, SAVINGS ACCOUNTS, CHECKING ACCOUNT, OR ANY OTHER TYPE OF ASSET ACCOUNT AND SHOULD NOT BE CHARACTERIZED AS A BANKING PRODUCT OR SERVICE. THE USE OF TERMS SUCH AS “ACCOUNT,” “ACCOUNT BALANCE,” “WITHDRAW” AND SIMILAR LANGUAGE IN CONNECTION WITH THE EARN SERVICE AND THE BORROW SERVICE (SEE FURTHER SECTIONS 4(D) AND 4(E) BELOW, RESPECTIVELY) DOES NOT IMPLY OR ESTABLISH, AND SHALL NOT BE TAKEN TO SUGGEST, ANY FORM OF CUSTODY RELATIONSHIP, AND SUCH LANGUAGE IS USED HEREIN AS TERMS OF CONVENIENCE ONLY IN REFERRING TO USERS’ BORROWING OR LENDING OF DIGITAL ASSETS TO OR FROM CELSIUS AS PART OF THE EARN SERVICE AND BORROW SERVICE, AND CELSIUS’ OBLIGATION TO TRANSFER DIGITAL ASSETS TO USERS UPON THE TERMINATION OF SUCH LOANS OR REPAYMENT OF SUCH BORROWING IN CONNECTION WITH THESE SERVICES. Any money "deposited" into Celsius was actually "loaned" to them. They used those loans to gamble on crypto and now users are SOL
Users are now SOL? Well at least they don’t have to work 24 hours a day.
You cant make this shit up. For people who still dont understand what Celsius really is, let me ELI5: Imagine you used DeFi for the first time and found stuff(ponzis) like Anchor Protocol, that promise you 19% yield on your crypto deposits. You deposit your few thousands bucks into it and it really pays out. So what do you now? You cant get rich of 19% yield on a few thousand bucks. You make a business out of it. You promise clueless retail investors 9% yield on their deposits to you. So you can cash in the 10% delta. Now, there are thousands of protocols like Anchor, which promise high yields. So you "diversify" into different DeFi Protocols. Everyone who is long enough in crypto knows that this yields are unsustainable and these ponzi protocols blow up sooner or later. But that shouldnt hurt you since you are not using your own money but your customers money! But this way you can only make a few % and not get super rich really quick. So you release a Token! "Why would someone buy your token?" Because you promise them a higher yield on their "investments". Then you sell millions of your own tokens to clueless retail investors who think they are investing in a "new type of crypto bank that really looks legit! Look at their website!!". So basically, you invest your customers money into ponzi schemes, release a useless token to promise them more ponzi yield. And when the market takes a nosedive and these yieldfarm ponzis collapse you didnt really lose anything because you dont have to pay your customers the money back but can keep the millions of your own token sale. Its insane! We need regulation and some kind of new laws to send these people into jail. Thats straight up robbery and idiocy thats super forbidden in the real traditional finance world.
And in fact you write into your terms of usage that retail investers don't make a deposit but an unsecured loan to you. So your not even obliged to pay back. Clever.
Exactly, yet we still see specialists on a regular basis that don't want any regulations in their crypto space and are advocating for privacy tokens.
Good example is a company called "Stablegains". They promised 15% on their customers and threw all money into anchor, pocketing the difference. They lost millions of customers funds.
It's only robbery in the ethical sense. Without regulation, what they did is legal (and highly profitable for them).
Why do you assume the tokens are sent to FTX for speculative purposes ? Couldn't they have made an agreement of sorts with FTX, getting LINK for cash or ETH ?
Selling LINK for cash/ETH is the equivalent of a short. Any asset they sell or trade at this point is speculative behaviour, instead they should be putting assets back in their wallets so users can start withdrawing what is left Instead they are continuing to trade in the hopes of making back the deficit they lost. Doubling down.
Why do it with just a bit of LINK though. Celsius can unwind all the borrows leaving them still exposed to client loans. In fact, they could have just done it prior to announcing the withdrawal freeze. Freeze was near certain to cause a crash, would have profited massively on the short exposure.
Is anyone noticing FTX seems to always be in the story line frequently with these liquidations and rug pulls. Tell me if I'm being too suspicious
Wondering that myself. My Papaw had a couple of saying. 1. If you mess with chicken shit long enough ur bound to get some on you. 2. If you lay down with dogs you’ll wake up with fleas. The jist of both is fairly true and it does seem that FTX seems to be catastrophe adjacent an awful lot. I also can’t square in my mind how it is that SBF is operating in the space he is and yet politically aligned with non-capitalists. He’s got a Clayton Bigsby vibe.
well FTX has a lot to win if competition gets annihilated.
Are you saying Nexo and Okex are doing this well?
u have proof that they sent money to exchanges but u dont have proof that they are shorting them
So should we trust a random Redditor that says Celsius is misusing funds to short? AlRiGhTy ThEn! 🥴
Noyes.
If someone could figure out all of Celsius short and longs so We can bet against them, that would be great.
[https://debank.com/profile/0x76a05277b81b9ca6c06c9ab4136116fc53e9c9e1/history](https://debank.com/profile/0x76a05277b81b9ca6c06c9ab4136116fc53e9c9e1/history) [https://etherscan.io/tx/0x085159d90f864f246386e4d3c099c527d59c6227188bf40cfce2a324840b2b1a](https://etherscan.io/tx/0x085159d90f864f246386e4d3c099c527d59c6227188bf40cfce2a324840b2b1a) This is where the LINK ended up. What does "Contract Interaction" imply?
Bit of a question then... if FTX/Alameda is trying to exact revenge (allegedly) for Celsius exiting Luna and not telling anyone. Why are they using FTX at all?
Awh come on, you have no idea what they’re doing with the funds. Could just as well be market making or arbitraging or something else.
Is nexo in the same boat?? I held my funds 100% there and some fiat... I removed it all and left only nexo... But dont want to lose that too :(
Are you saying multiple large organizations are taking short positions on LINK right now?
It’s their only shot at making everyone whole. Double or nothing
Really there is insufficient evidence to say that Celsius is "openly shorting" those assets "on the open market". The blockchain only takes you so far.
So if one wanted to fuck them over, pumping LINK would do the trick?
Yes. Liquidations likely start around 0.007 against the ETH pair. Okex also has major liquidation around 0.01.
If they sent LINK to FTX, how do you know they are shorting it and not just simply selling it for USD?
If you've kept your coins with a cryptocurrency exchange or CeFi service, you're effectively taking a short position without even realising because they lend it to those who inturn use leverage and take a short position.
Using customers money for degenerate DeFi strategies.
The Blockchain being a public ledger is a BAD thing?
Fud merchant. no proof, just fud
I mean celsius very clearly has lost all their customers money, Ans now like a degenerate alcoholic gambler is convinced they can win it all back tomorrow down the dog races and no one will be any the wiser. This is a huge problem since it's a massive warning sign for how the company is run and it's long term prospects. Look up Baring bank or the sumitumo copper affair for examples of this.
And to think, just back in April, they told stakers they were kicking them off their platform unless they were "accredited" investors...that is, investors that could prove their net worth was over 200K. In life, whenever someone asks you for accreditation, always check theirs first.
Fyi, the accredited investor bar was $1mil
I will add to this, that similar transactions can be found for CeFi exchanges Okex and Nexo. Okex is even exposed openly in LINK shorts on their DeFi Aave contracts. [https://etherscan.io/token/0x0b8f12b1788BFdE65Aa1ca52E3e9F3Ba401be16D#balances](https://etherscan.io/token/0x0b8f12b1788BFdE65Aa1ca52E3e9F3Ba401be16D#balances) These are the major LINK short holders on AaveV2. The top 5 wallets are all funded from Okex. The first liquidations of these exchanges start when LINK/ETH starts hitting 0.007 on the ETH pair (against which it has been gaining) Major liquidations start around 0.009-0.01.
The Nexo one was many many years ago..
Get off "yield" You are shorting your own holdings. Alameda gon give it to ya. Acknowledging who Alameda is should be something you have to do with your lawyer before you buy crypto. It's why you should avoid SOL and USDT. It's not a Ponzi. It's Alameda. Learn that saying. Everything's right in front of you. Why do you think Celsius is sending your money to FTX? FTX is Alameda. Why do you think SBF bankrolls politicians? Because regulation should make them illegal. If you are going to buy, do not keep anything on exchanges. GTF off exchanges take no "yield". Market liquidity is dominated by shorts right now.
>The problem with blockchain is that everything on it is transparent. Monero has joined the chat.
Sir, this is a Casino.
I am shocked -- shocked I say! -- to find gambling going on in this establishment!
Good that with crypto can see what’s happening. Normal banks do it but you would never know
Good thing with normal banks is they arent like Celsius. Everyone thats ever had a bank (in the US) lock everyone's funds with little hope they would unlock them, please raise your hands.
Oh come on, I never had a bank tell me my money is not there and I will not be able to retrieve it. In my country there’s also an 100.000 euro per person bank security so I will always be able to withdraw. Nice right .
The federal government can see what normal chartered banks are doing. Every detail of it. It's been about a century since any American consumer banking customer lost a dime in a failed bank.
Decentralization is essential.
I can’t make a Reddit post so I’ll just say it here. Stop saying BTC will take over currencies. How do I explain this… The value on BTC is determined in USD. Therefore, the valuable currency here is obviously the USD. How can BTC take over any currency when it needs to be valued by a currency? Let’s say the whole world gets rid of their currency. And we have 1.8 million BTC circulating in between 7.9 billion people (rough estimates of world population). That’s 0.000278 BTC for every person. How do you even buy grocery with that? Get paid from your job? 40 hour job now pays 0.0000000001 BTC? A piece of celery costs 0.000000000000378 BTC? Because as all these crypto fanboys said, BTC is the future currency. So tell me how will the world work with 1.8m BTC while population’s ever growing? At the end of the day, BTC will just be translated to another currency where the rich 0.1% will have like 10 BTC while someone in Africa may have 0.00000000000000000000000001 BTC. It doesn’t work, does it. As I’ve said, BTC’s value is determined by USD, and therefore, USD is the only reason BTC has any value whatsoever. Imagine you have 100 BTC but you can’t sell it for usd nor can you buy any groceries with it. Not very useful is it. Even a rock’s more useful for being a rock. If you really believe crypto to be the future of all currencies, then, that means you never want to have usd (or any other currencies) ever again. Because you believe that in future, everyone will use BTC only. Truth is, all of you are buying BTC because you want your $100 UNITED STATES DOLLARS to become $500 UNITED STATES DOLLARS. You don’t believe in BTC. You’re only gambling for your USD to increase in value. So tell me again that BTC is going to take over the world as the future of currency? Wake the fk up.
Feeling a little left out here bro, as I deal in GBP.
You should probably learn a bit more about economics before posting.
One bitcoin can be divided into up to eight decimal places, with constituent units called satoshis. BTC replacing the USD marketcap would put it at approx $1m at current rates. That means 1 Satoshi (smallest amount of BTC) would be worth 1 cent. Additionally, BTC can be divided down into even smaller units on the lightning network, which would ostensibly be used for everyday transactions (and already is in El Salvador)
I can't wait for the future where I get paid in BTC, exchange it for ETH, buy NFT links to images of carrots and then cruise down to my local supermarket to exchange it for real carrots It's a bright future ahead
Lmao for the looks of it that sounds about right. I mean, we have people eating laundry balls for dares so….
The currency has a value in USD because that’s the exchange rate. You know like every other currency on the planet there is an exchange rate. Also with Bitcoin, it would be measured in “Sats”. Nice try though.
Again, then it’s like saying British Pound is going to take over USD or saying that China’s national currency will become Yen. Lmfao
I never said Bitcoin is going to take over all currencies. There will always be currencies issued by governments. I’m just saying it’s a moot point to discredit Bitcoin when it has an exchange rate. Because all currencies have one. Also last time I checked all fiat currencies have different buying power. For example the USD is worth more than other currencies.
I understand your argument and your point. I’d like to add to this. All I’m saying is we should explain what BTC is for what it really is. BTC existed to buy things you don’t want to be caught buying. An untraceable medium of currency exchange. That’s all it is. It’s not going to become the next currency nor will every grocery will be adapting this inconvenience (imagine labeling all your grocery price in 0.00….1 BTC). People betting their life savings when they see news that Tesla are accepting BTC. This creates a false sense of use for BTC and it eventually got worse to a point where people thinks it’s the dominance currency in years to come. I hope this makes sense.
This is the quadriga / Gerald Cotten way