By - Set1Less
Solana [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/vfszpt/solend_the_largest_lending_market_on_solana_is/icxnsj1/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/vfszpt/solend_the_largest_lending_market_on_solana_is/icxnst6/) and related info are in the collapsed comments below. Pros and cons will change for every new post. Submit a pro/con argument in the [Cointest](https://www.reddit.com/r/CointestOfficial/wiki/cointest_policy) and potentially win [Moons](https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/moon/). Moon prizes by award for the Top Coins category are: **1st - 600, 2nd - 300, 3rd - 150, and Best Analysis - 1000.**
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Meesa propose that the Senate immediately grant Emergency powers to the Supreme Chancellor
Well if this idiot space janitor thinks so, I'm in!
Wait so, let me check if I understand. This one whale has leveraged a huge amount of solana, so much that if the price of solana drops and this wallet gets forced to liquidate, it could effectively crash solana. That's about right?
And this whale doesn't look like they're going to cash out so they want to, essentially, forcibly seize his solana and make him cash out.
That sounds... Sub optimal.
And sound very centralised, authoritarian style sort of governance
The antithesis of crypto lol
This is exactly the opposite of what cryptos supposed to do.
And people called Sol the eth killer lol
There is no killer to any coin but itself
I'd say this marks the death of SOL.
Nah The DAO failure and reversing on-chain transactions didn't sink ETH either. People don't give a shit about principles
And yet anyone who was paying the slightest bit of attention beyond the grift knew that exactly this would happen.
Yall really thought if we de-regulated financial systems, they would become *more* ethical?
First day on earth or what.....
The number of lessons we have to relearn from the past 100 years astonishes me. We literally figured this out in the 1920s
Ideological antipathy for the SEC causes people to turn their brains off.
Yep, and the legacy financial system took 30 years before the stock market reached the high it hit in 1929. Things move faster now, but it still could be 5-10 until proper fixes and put in place and people trust crypto enough again to drive the prices back to where they were.
Ah yes. “This bear market is different.”
DeFi should be handled by contracts that shouldn't be tampered with. Whatever they're doing here isn't that.
Your comment needs to be upvoted more.
Yet here we are
I know right. Long term all those SOL are going to get SOLd
Satoshi really be rolling in his grave... What's meant to be a fair, transparent and open monetary system for individuals have gone the way of banks, with greedy institutions like Celsius, 3AC and many others borrowing one loan after another after another to "generate yield"
I've never had my deposits seized for liquidity emergencies by any bank I've used, tho.
Regulations are needed in any market. You can't trust people
Cypress' banking system was a joke.
Humans are involved, it’s gonna be fucked up and greedy.
Bitcoin is fine.
This sort of thing is actually good, and overdue. Virtually all of these projects and "platforms" are pure shite and should be flushed ASAP.
Satoshi is probably loving this. There's about to be way more BTC maxis.
Sounds like a completely shit, centralised model either way if one investor can have such a dramatic effect on the network.
Yes and people don’t pay much attention other than the price action. Until now.
It amazes me how little people comprehend the word "de/centralized" here. Decentralization doesn't mean people can't seize your funds. It means everyone gets to vote to seize your funds.
Everyone that was awake during the 3-4 hour window the vote was happening. Even dictators give their guys more time to vote that that
Sounds like governance in general.
I'm not seeing how people can have their cake (decentralization) and eat it too (governance). The "community" aspect of governance is a sham as voting power can quite literally be purchased, and the "developers" can do whatever they want, whenever they want, with reasons that regular joes can never verify.
Crypto is only decentralized when it counts least. During the times when we need decentralization most it acts the most centralized.
Decentralized during peacetime and centralized during wartime. Not surprising considering there's precedent for this back in the DAO hack.
Decentralization is just theater to convince people to buy up bags.
Decentralization is theatre to avoid being labeled a security in *most* cases.
Wtaf? This is just peak libertarianism. A private entity being able to do whatever the fuck it wants, user/buyer beware.
The fact that there is no regulating body to say that this can’t happen is exactly what cryptobros wanted.
>This is just peak libertarianism.
It literally isn't, as far from it as possible even: Libertarianism places incredible value on personal property. Taking someone's property without consent as is proposed here is considered an act of aggression and inherently wrong under libertarianism.
yeah that's some authoritarian shit If I've ever seen it.
Darn, I already gave out the understatement award!
Man, there is so much to learn from this.
One rich fucker would rather let the world burn than be amongst the hoi polloi.
But it's 'ok' because the governance can just seize whatever they want whenever they need to, and don't worry they would never abuse that kthxbye.
Please let this be the wake up call! How decentralized is your asset?
>One rich fucker would rather let the world burn than be amongst the hoi polloi.
That's not his problem. If the network is that terrible then it deserves to crash. Just by this post being shown to thousands of people on Reddit, he's already done good in exposing weaknesses.
Big facts. It's the systems fault for being exploited, not the other way around. In a truly free market, ineffective companies/ideas die. Point blank period.
By governance, means that users would vote on this, means it's a huge if this even works.
I later found out that solana doesn't even have on chain voting, I guess the delegated nodes would vote or smth.
But yes, that would be the point of governance, democracy, let me grab my popcorn and see how this unfolds.
Only 1% needed to vote, far from democracy.
The entire premise of "trustless" decentralization is that this should be literally impossible to do.
If this can be done, you are a (very poorly designed & constructed) regulatory body and your currency is heavily centralized. Why are we even here? Should've stuck to USD
Shitcoins be shitcoining
I think this might be enough to transition it from *shitcoin* status to *scamcoin* status.
Moving up in the world!
Update on the situation:
A wallet with over [1M SOL just voted YES](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVnuun6WUAI_AeU?format=jpg&name=4096x4096) on the proposal and allowed the protocol to have full control over user funds....
Solana is a meme and I feel sorry for the people that still think it is a blockchain lol
**EDIT**: Due to a lot of outraged Solana fanboys correcting me in the comments I do need to clarify that I have made a dire mistake. The tokens in question are not SOL but SOLEND.
While it doesn't change the fact that Solend is most probably owned by Sam and Alameda it is an important difference for some. It also doesn't change the fact that all the anonymous devs behind SOLEND are probably sitting at FTX HQ while submitting new lines of code to Github but yes, I do apologize for my mistake.
So dumb question, but the OP says the whale they want to liquidate has 5.7 million SOL, why doesn’t the whale just vote “no” and dwarf the total votes?
Pretty sure that collateralized tokens can't be used for voting.
They can’t, but it would still be funny if the whale decides to fuck it up.
Tbh, this is robbery.
Yes it is, plain as day.
It’s possible the borrower made money and cashed out and calculated it’s better to get liquidated and buy back in when the market tanks some more. Basically shorted.
The whale is not responding. That's why they are doing this at the first place.
So what if they aren't responding? What if the whale wants their funds liquidated (say they are insane)? What if they are dead? Whatever the reason doesn't matter.
Solana can steal your funds at any point if they do this. What if they don't want a price bump in the future - freeze wallet, take funds; what if someone if talking S&it on twitter that the community feels could be negative to solana - take their funds!
This is crazy.
Exactly who cares if they aren’t responding. How would you know if the user didn’t have another hedge somewhere else.
Try again. Solana CANNOT seize your funds. Literally impossible.
\#SOLEND can steal your funds
That's what happens when you put your money on a DeFi platform. They can just take it.
Actually it's a fairly common tactic that whales use in illiquid markets.
By borrowing 80% of their value in stables then getting liquidated they know they are definitely getting 80% of their value as exit liquidity. By the time it gets defaulted the stables are moved to a cex and cashed out.
Also it's kinda plausible deniability. They didn't mean to crash the network and dump the price it was all an accident.
Elon Musk is out there scratching his head, wondering where he wrote down his password.
About half a million USD worth tokens have voted to take control of $100m worth funds..
Fucking zero credibility. [Shitcoin propped up by fraudsters like Scam Bankman Fried](https://twitter.com/SBF_FTX/status/1538450026573316097)
Whats worse is a big gang of VC worshippers cheer this on..
The fact that he invested in Robinhood says it all, people of the same kind band together.
To be fair, the reason he invested in Robinhood is probably because he is trying to get in cheaper before an acquistion. Robinhood would be much more valuable at this point if it were acquired than if not. And FTX, the exchange SBF founded, is far and away the most likely company to acquire Robinhood. They have been widely rumored to be considering acquiring Robinhood for months now.
Have you seem the TPS and low fees! Thats all that matters am I right?
wait until they hear about VISA
This but unironicly
The vote was not done in SOL. It was Solend governance tokens.
This isn't 'solana'. It's 'solend'. A lend/borrow platform on solana.
The solana foundation doesn't follow any of this stuff or enforce what protocols can and cannot do.
What should've happened is that there would've been a limit on borrow/lend based on liquidity on the dexes. Pretty straightforward.
Or allow the liquidation to go through. It'll work. It'll just mean solana will be really really cheap for a split second on some dex and someone will basically suck the majority of it up.
The reason solend doesn't want this to happen is because all the lenders on their platform will basically get fucked over and get only a fraction of what they lent back.
Is this all ideal? No. But does solend's actions make sense? Yes. Right now this is a good solution for their lenders.
Should they be able to decide what to do with this account and sell their Sol OTC? No. Definitely not.
Crypto seems to want to repeat every painful lesson we learnt in elementary finance eons ago.
It’s almost like centralized finance, redundant risk management requirements throughout multiple levels and by multiple parties within the system, and regulation just might be a wildly better way to exchange assets….
The hubris, greed, naïveté and general fraud woven deeply into the defi stupidity just might be the ultimate cause of its destruction.
You are spot on with your critique.
Crypto si speedruning every mistake and recession of last two centuries of marker economy
It's not even a surprise. Many of the earliest attempts at "financial services" were pretty decentralized. No system existed, a bunch of people, often traders and merchants without governments got together and established "protocols" they could mutually trust.
Over time, the ability to scale (mainly geographically) while mitigating fraud and other risks was the driver for centralization and regulation.
I love all of the posts here saying, "We need regulation!" Why did you even get involved in these scams in the first place?
Seizing funds by ‘governance’……dictatorships do that sort of shit
Solana literally has the capabilities to seize other peoples funds.
Imagine investing a single penny in this shit.
*Solend, not Solana.
the smart contract would be modified to perform this, not the network.
Funds are not safe on solana
I dislike Solana, but this can be done on Ethereum too. The possibilities are (almost) endless with smart contracts, for good and bad. Depends how the contract in question is written.
Legitimate question: How can a smart contract be modified by only one party to the contract? That doesn’t seem to make it much of a contract at all
Again, depends on the contract. I remember OysterPearl on Ethereum and Bruno "resetting" the ICO long after it ended, enabling him to mint millions of tokens and dump it on the community. It was in the contract all along but no one realized the risk until it was too late.
They later became Opacity.
This is so important for people to understand, but it's going to be buried under all the SOL hate. Yeah, Solana is a mess, but you gotta be aware this could happen to you, this specific lending issue is not at all unique
Funds are SEIZU
Here's a joke on solana!
*Sorry it does not exist anymore*
Ohhh. Yeah I totally misunderstood the post, thanks for pointing this out. It's in the title as well, I just missed it.
I agree they have shown how centralised they are time and again
No they don’t. You should learn more before speaking, as should others learn more before up or down voting. This is a separate quasi-DeFI protocol called “Solend” operating on Solana.
**Correct**: Imagine depositing a single penny into *Solend* that you weren’t willing to lose and treat it as if *Solend* was run by criminals” (agree)
**Incorrect**: Imagine investing a single penny in Solana where they can seize your funds? (not true)
No no no, see... we **voted** on this proposal. This is **democracy**.
Similar to how voting work in mainland China. No more than a formality.
I disagree, if they voted no it wouldn't be happening
In mother Russia crypto owns you.
Yeah well anyway
The D in Solona stands for decentralisation
Lol emergency powers rearing their head around even in crypto 🤣 “just give us total control and everything will be alright”
Am I understanding this properly? Solend did the following:
* Created a DAO 24 hours ago
* Created a proposal with a 1% quorum to steal $100m from a user who broke no rules and is ~30% above their liquidation level
* Set the proposal live for 6 hours while half the planet was asleep
* A single wallet holding 1.01% of vote appeared out of thin air, voted "Yes", then disappeared
All over a holiday weekend that is supposed to celebrate freedom.
Yup, corruption at its finest.
Fatman on twitter posted on this also! Oh boy! The hole goes deeper![fatman on twitter](https://twitter.com/fatmanterra/status/1538448035885240321?s=21&t=05TlC3MriU6BVYd6lYB5SA)
Put Solana into rice.
The vote already passed Yes with over 1 million 99% voting yes.
Some whale just dumped about a million votes yes. Wouldn’t surprise me if it was the devs. Is there a way to see how many votes from each address?
Edit: It’s this address: 6HFxHT4tFVB19weeMGYQrepa51rzxjydkhWAaomsf6g4
Dwarfs the other voters.
No idea, just love watching all these “decentralized” lies come to the forefront. One guy on twitter and another whale voter just literally robbed someone to “protect” a “beta” network from going down when that’s literally what it’s known for.
People want a deregulated system. Welcome to deregulation.
At this point, not confident we see a truly decentralized currency that can’t be manipulated by greed.
We have thousands of years of human history that demonstrate this. I have no idea how people in crypto thought they could avoid it, particularly when crypto has been speed running through historic monetary stages
Well VCs, insiders, etc. hold the overwhelming majority of wealth in the Solana ecosystem due to the initial token distribution - so it doesn't even need to be the devs, just people willing to do whatever to make the most profit with 0 ethics and values.
I mean, if we proposed that the richest people in the traditional financial system could vote to do as they please with everyone's money, how would that go?
I’ve got news for you: all of crypto is that way. Any system that requires money or ‘fees’ to vote is not democratic.
Here's hoping the whale who kicked off this shit show dumps his bags into a no vote for our collective entertainment
Every centralized cryptocurrency will eventually fail. You cannot trust something that has a single point of failure, be it human (a leader or founder) or technological.
Decentralization is not a core principal, it is a necessity. We already have the rest of the financial world if you love centralization.
So just turn off Solana again so nobody can liquidate
and blame DDOS or some hackers out there 😂
Literally a POS blockchain
A piece of shit blockchain?
Not defending the obviously short sighted code that failed to prohibit monster whales or enabled orderly liquidation of outsized collateral, but what they are proposing to do is the same from a the user perspective as letting the smart contract liquidate the funds; this is what was going to happen automatically.
The idea here is it can happen without clobbering the network and causing a crash and further losses to loan provisioners. The user is going to lose their funds anyway… but this definitely defeats decentralization and trustlessness. It would be different perhaps if this was a regular dao function, but a contract upgrade to handle a one time edge case… ouch.
At any rate, the failure of the developers to consider the catastrophic failure modes speaks volumes about who should and shouldn’t be developing financial code in the first place.
Developers transitioning from industries like aerospace or industrial control where failure means a fiery death for hundreds of people or even a whole town poisoned are accustomed to considering the what ifs and identifying unexpected failure modes in software, providing fail-safe and fail- soft features, and in general usually not getting people killed.
There are standards to follow and best practices to be used, as well as rigorous testing and attack fuzzing.
It’s not that it’s not possible to produce safe code…it’s that we have a bunch of “coders” spitballing financial systems on weekend hackathons. Developing life safety and financial software requires a level of paranoia and mistrust of everything and everyone including yourself. Most developers just think their code will be executed as intended in the intended environment within reasonable, anticipated parameters.
Life safety and financial developers have to make a screwdriver that, even when incorrectly made, cannot be used to jam between the turbine blades on a jet engine that hasn’t been invented yet, and then when it is used to do this even though it was thought to be impossible, it will fail in such a way to not cause damage to the engine or injury to the user. But it must still work perfectly as a screwdriver in all intended applications.
It’s a different ball game entirely.
It is very much buyer beware, there is no reasonable expectation of developer competence or professionalism and by and large the “auditing” companies don’t actually test for operational failures of the system, only best practices and obvious security problems.
Source: am a blockchain developer with a background in industrial control and (UAV) flight control software.
I thought this was the whole point of cryptocurrency, nobody can take it from you, once it's yours it's yours
Unless if half of the stake holders agree, oh, and the devs own 90%.
That sounds like a classic bank where no one can access your funds - unless he owns the bank.
This idea died in 2016, my dude, with ETH saying "fuck this idea about the code being law, I want my money".
Not your keys, not your c.........
It has been fascinating watching DeFi replicate all the nuances of TradFi bit by bit by bit, lock stock and smoking barrel.
Except without decades of consumer protection laws built in.
Indeed - that's a part they haven't gotten to yet - all the guardrails. They'll next discover why leaving it to the system doesn't work, and one has to be intentional about it.
Yup. It's exactly why a centralized futures platform like Binance has so many restrictions for whales. You can't just put in millions on 50x leverage, while it's fine with thousands.
These DeFi platforms have no such restrictions, and now theyll see what can happen in cases like these.
Also I think some smart whales can make loads of money on other sites like Solend, or completely kill them. There's multiple DeFi protocols with leverage live right now. Imagine if he could crash Solana, who's stopping him from shorting the ever living shit out of Solana everwhere else? And abusing said crash. And I'm sure there are even better opportunities elsewhere.
"It's like history, it rhymes"
\- George Lucas
Repeat after me: Solend protocol nor its DAO has nothing to do with Solana the L1 or the L1's governance
Those things are in no way related
Sounds to me like Solend doesn’t have liquidity to allow this to happen organically. If it did happen on chain, they claim the expected actions of liquidators will likely crash Solana.
Sounds to me like Solend is trying to save their ass by using the excuse that this could crash the Solana network. You guys need to understand that Solana (blockchain) is not responsible for the actions of an independent protocol like Solend. It’s Solend who wants to seize the funds not “Solana.”
Yep and you can clearly see that in the language they're using in their blogpost:
> If SOL drops to $22.30, the whale’s account becomes liquidatable for up to 20% of their borrows (~$21M). It’d be difficult for the market to absorb such an impact since liquidators generally market sell on DEXes. **In the worst case, Solend could end up with bad debt.**
> We shouldn’t do nothing. At this size, the whale will always present a systemic risk to Solend and its users. They’re showing no signs of action, and it seems inevitable that they’ll eventually allow themselves to be liquidated.
> Solend could end up with bad debt.
How to say you know nothing about Lending without saying you know nothing about Lending.
What a bunch of fools.
If "funds" can be seized it's not decentralized.
Honestly this sounded to crazy to not be FUD but it’s 100% true. The most fucked up thing is the liquidation price is $22.30 which is like a 30% drop and the proposal voting ends in less than 3 hours. I’ll be surprised if they even reach a quorum in that time so I kind of suspect they’re trying to scare this whale more than anything.
Either way this is totally fucked up and would get me out of Solana immediately if I wasn’t already.
> I’ll be surprised if they even reach a quorum in that time
The proposal has quorum and is 99.8% in favor
Yea some whale cast a million votes right after I posted that. Dwarfs the rest of the pool, he/she basically gets to decide I guess.
no you dont understand, it was individuals and not a government who made that decision so its definitly not comparable /s
Wait, so this is actually going to happen? This is a joke.
Where can I view this
A bunch of scared holders at risk of taking losses vote to not take losses. Shocking.
Better get your money out now before it’s to late.
Lmao so much for the big shill here
The amount of people conflating Solend's protocol and the actual Solana chain is kind of disturbing.
The D in SOL stands for decentralised lol
And it's always "in beta" when shit hits the fan.
But this is Solend scared of getting bad debt, this isn’t really much to do about the Solana protocol…
Solend are just scapegoating the network as an excuse for not having enough liquidity to honour this
*Eth killer killing itself*
Only Eth killer is Eth 2.0
This is a lending platform that has a governance DAO, the people putting their money in it know that other vote on how to handle the protocol and funds. This is not Solana, but a third party platform.
Main purpose of crypto is to remove the middle man, why would anyone lend out their coins for a few % in the name of APY. Take your profits by hodling and not staking. Not your keys, not your coin
Bitcoin still doesn't have any of these problems
They purposely restricted voting time and passed threshold at 1% and had a whale immediately pass it... this is fucking robbery.
At this point I'm too afraid to ask why people even trust solana as a "decentralised" asset
The cynic in me says half of them are probably paid shills
The majority is just desperate bagholders doing the shilling for the people running SQLana
All the coins/tokens that pumped in the last years are centralized.
But yeah this is horrendous. 90% of the "votes" come from 1 address.
That's the problem if you can buy votes. SLND is currently traded at $0.67, so to rig the vote you only really need $670'000.
Simple - turn off the system for few hours - call it a DDOS attack.
People wont be surprised because....its Solana.
It’s more surprising to hear that SOL is currently up and running!
Lol alright I’m out. I was going to keep holding because I believed in solana but this post did it for me. I’ll take the losses! Good luck guys!
This is happening on the Solend lending platform. This could happen on literally ANY other chains lending platforms. Solana doesn't control what Solend does.
Why would THIS be the reason you leave SOL, compared to the other legitimate reasons like network outages?
I'm proud of you
They're not trying to seize his account, they're attempting to move the liquidation, if it happens OTC instead of on-chain to avoid draining on chain liquidity. Similar things are also going on in Maker and AAVE
the fact of it is that DeFI code and oracles are still overly simplistic, only considering prices, TradFI banks risk models are way more complex then these.
And people here are conflating Solana with the actions of Solend. A bear market also shows who are investors and who are gamblers…
this defeats the point of cryptos. theyre supposed to be decentralized so they can't do this. guess I'm never buying into this one
How the fuck does this have over $10 billion market cap? How is this the 7th largest crypto by market cap? Everytime I see it's name mentioned in something, it's because it's either doing something shitty or just straight up not working. I don't own any and never will; it's clear Solana is utter shit and should be culled from the landscape.
Pretty sure NFTs are the sole reason this project got so much hype. That plus their chain having issues constantly made it clear it wasn't worth my time.
Dude this issue is about Solend btw, not Solana. As they have said, Solend don’t have the liquidity and don’t want bad debt. They are using the risk of Solana crashing as the excuse for hijacking this whales account.
Solend isn’t Solana, although both aren’t exactly decentralised lol
Why would they allow margin positions their network can't handle? They could have easily had a cap and increased it if liquidity eventually came.
isn't this being voted on by a dao? wouldn't that be signs that a decentralized governance can respond to emergent threats appropriately ?
I've always told my self SOL = Shit Outta Luck.
They should just let the liquidation happen on chain.
This sort of action is far more damaging than a price hit in a bear market or yet another outage for Solana.
Oh but wait, that would mean Solend Lab holding bad debt... better organise a "vote" to screw someone else over instead.
No matter whether you like solana or not, it has never been decentralized.
All of its speed comes at a cost - centralization. Which makes you think - What’s the purpose of a cryptocurrency that is not decentralized again?
Taking money from your pocket and putting it into their pocket.
Imagine owning crypto and this can happen to you. And they call the banks evil and authoritarian.
Unsurprisingly, a democracy where one dollar = one vote is worse than a flawed democracy like the US.
Centralized , always problem.
Decentralization is of a scale and 99% of these projects rest on the side of centralization.
I mean, warnings about Solana were around from pretty much it’s inception.
If people didn’t heed those warnings then I guess it’s a sad reality that your money will be gone.
If this fuckers can do that I think I will take my loss and sell all my solana. This is not what decentralized looks like. Network is kind of trash too with all the crashes it has anyways
I’m about to liquidate my sol after reading this, lol rip sol.
Why is sol priced above 0$?
For the same reasons that safemoon, ICP, and even Luna 2.0 have any value, I guess
I am glad of this bear run. So many lies coming forward. So many influencers being busted and losing their net-worth.
Shitboy lost millions in Celsius fiasco.
And the reason why they can do this is because VCs own like 70% of Sol and tokens and run the validators who then vote on this shit. SOL is a centralized piece of crap with stability issues.
Solanas purpose is to make money for its founders and VCs.
Just in case this isn't obvious, but this is what Bitcoin maxis mean when they say PoS is as bad or even worse than the current fiat system
I'm not a btc maxi but I don't own any PoS coins. Only PoW. Good coins are far and few between.
I guess that’s why many governments are trying to force PoS while hiding behind the guise of the energy debate.
Ok I'm confused...is the issue with Solend, or is this a Solana issue?
####so what's the point of decentralization