T O P

Check your brokers, do you have shares or CFD contracts?

Check your brokers, do you have shares or CFD contracts?

Ok_Entrepreneur_5833

Yeah been thinking about this, in the light that we need more eyes on the phenomenon of IOU's vs CFD's vs Beneficial Ownership of derivatives etc... Much has come to light recently in the debacle of what's happening when apes are transferring out of shady brokers and receiving notice they never had the shares. And the phenomenon of the clearly lying brokers who have delayed transfers when it's quite clear that they're just not submitting the request and kicking the can because they've been caught out hanging in the wind without the underlying security purchased on the behalf of the investor. It's important people get 100% on the way it's all handled so I welcome and conversation in this regards in this time. For my own learning as well as seeing the collective mind grow in the direction it needs to grow. I think right now we're on the cusp of a breakthrough in understanding and the actual meaning of these words in relation to what's happening when transferring is important for future events I see coming. I've always been with Fidelity but I am concerned for all the other apes getting pushed back and want to see this part of the story through to it's inevitable conclusion with everyone struggling with transferring.


Independent_Let89

Thank you for the response, I’ve been thinking about this for a while and got triggered again by inability to transfer the shares by other apes. I am just afraid of the fact that posts like these won’t get enough exposure, but a tweet from somebody or 741 fills my feed


Landrost

I recently asked Hargreaves Lansdown about this and received this reply: "Thank you for getting in touch, I hope you are well. The Gamestop Corp shares you hold in your Stocks & Shares ISA are not CFDs. In order for UK investors to invest in overseas companies via HL, the shares are usually packaged into a vehicle called a CREST Depository Interest (CDI). Investing in a CDI gives you exposure to an overseas security as a UK investor. The underlying shares are held on trust for the benefit of the investor that owns the CDIs. These CDIs are regulated securities representing shares held via CREST in their DTC account under Hargreaves Lansdown Nominees Limited however, you remain the beneficial owner. If you wish sell your shares at any point, we will not have to locate your shares before the trade can be executed. Any shares held on behalf of HL clients cannot be lent out by CREST to short sellers or other market participants, regardless whether they are held in the UK or overseas." The way I interpret this is that they have our physical shares bought and paid for, but that they are unlikely to be registered to each retail investor, but instead under the nominees account. Obviously this is not as secure as having the shares registered with Computershare the transfer agent, but I feel confident in knowing the shares are there, being held on my behalf and not just some IOU like a lot of the US brokers.


Outofoffice_onRisa

Thank you for sharing this!


Independent_Let89

Yeah, ISA accounts generally are not CFD’s but actual stocks Thank you for sharing


TheAmazingTohelo

Etoro has seperated CFD and real share buying fairly clearly. If you have a CFD marker on your shares thats that. if not it should be a real share that is being held by Etoro for you as per their own contract.


Independent_Let89

EToro started out with CFD only, they opened it up to shares later.


TheAmazingTohelo

Ok. Still they say it in their FAQs, when its not CFD, they buy the share into their account and hold it for customer with customer having control of that share. If they dont do it like that then they are frauding customers big time and it would fuck them over so badly its not even funny. Like INSTA gibbed from existence. I dont think they want to take that risk. Especially since they are under many different financial watchdogs and laws and the EU.


Independent_Let89

They are in process of an IPO at that moment they started buying shares from that point on, but they still sell shares and CFDs right now


TheAmazingTohelo

yup. Either way in about an hour im contacting finnish financial authorities and explain to them what the suspicions are and include a email convo i have with etoro right now.


FearTheOldData

They are going public through a SPAC my friend. I believe it is called FTCVU


Independent_Let89

True, my bad


The_Meatyboosh

I actually use etoro and it says very clearly in the Position screen whether it's a CFD. When I started trading I didn't know what it was and thought it was like Options or something so I stayed well away from them.


Independent_Let89

Now it does but before it didn’t . And just like you said, people don’t know what it is


The_Meatyboosh

It definitely did at least since Jan/Feb 2020. A week after the blip I was looking at other stocks to swing trade and saw the CFD's then.


Independent_Let89

Do/did they explain what it is? I used them before and really had to look for the meaning of it


The_Meatyboosh

I'll have a look and reply back. From what I remember they had a link to an explanation on their faq.


The_Meatyboosh

Right, just looked. I couldn't find a single stock that was CFD it was all ETFs. And it appears right below the position parameters, where otherwise it says 'You are buying the underlying stock'. Then underneath that it provides the extra commission amount payable for opening a CFD overnight or over the weekend. However, you're correct in that they don't explain it, neither do they provide a link like I thought. You have to go to the menu, into Help, then click Fees. Here they mention a Stock will be traded as a CFD if you short it or use leverage. To actually find out more than the surface level you have to go to Support and click on the Help centre and type it into the search bar.


Independent_Let89

This exactly, hard to find and they already altered it a while ago. But even now it says your buying the undelying stock. Which is true but the offer you leverage (before they did this automatically) and then you buy a CFD in stead


dragonballsteve85

Capital.com - also CFD


Independent_Let89

Added


boxofrocks1

CFD is a broker treating a security like a casino, turning the broker into a bookie.


Independent_Let89

They win when you lose…that’s actually it


IMikeyBoyI

All my shares at etoro and hargreaves lansdown ISA. Should I be concerned?


Independent_Let89

I believe ISA are different type of accounts where they actually purchase, but you can always check with them


Slightly_underated

I am the same Etoro and HL ISA. I have no idea. Brain is as smooth as a bowling ball. But just letting you know your not the only Ape with this set up.


Independent_Let89

Just ask your broker! ISA should be different. Does EToro have ISA?


Slightly_underated

No, I am sure they don't have ISA.


Independent_Let89

Etoro has CFD as well as shares, just look in your account or ask them


Slightly_underated

Will do, thanks!


Viiae

If Etoro fails you're only covered up to €20,000 (EU) and £85,000 (UK) [t&c](https://www.etoro.com/customer-service/terms-conditions/)


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Offroaders25

Any Canadian apes know what wealth simple uses? I heard pfof wasn’t legal in Canada so should I assume wealth has real shares for me?


Independent_Let89

CFD is legal everywhere but the US. It has nothing to do with PFOF. Want to know for sure? Look up your broker and ask them


Offroaders25

Okay cool thanks I will! I’m still pretty smooth brained so I’m trying to learn!


LaserGuidedPolarBear

Banned in US https://www.daytrading.com/cfd/usa#:~:text=also%20potential%20losses.-,Is%20CFD%20Trading%20Legal%20In%20The%20USA%3F,on%20domestic%20or%20foreign%20platforms.


Independent_Let89

True, added it to earlier comment. We have a lot of non-US apes though. Myself included


FXS_Voodoo

But brokers have to mark them as CFDs. When they promote is as stock / security and sell you a CFD this is fraud.


Independent_Let89

Not only not marking them, also not explaining what an CFD is. Making people think they buy actual stock. Look through the comments 1 or 2 people have opened their eyes. A win for the community


FXS_Voodoo

Exactly and as it seems apes bought the "stock" and got a CFD and when they now want to transfer their shares, e. G. Fidelity can't find them because TDA et al sold none but CFDs and eToro just saying we can't transfer your shares anywhere because they don't have any shares. And now those apes have serious issues with tranafering since they have nothing to transfer. I hope there is a workaround because closing those positions to open new ones in CS is shit because they can use this to kick thr can for another day.


Independent_Let89

Workarounds are impossible for CFD, only the broker can buy the required shares. Etoro screwed a lot of us. It also lowers the top of the MOASS, since no share needed to buy back


Independent_Let89

Sorry for layout issues, on my phone


LEEH1989

I have some in an ISA with IG so would they be CFDs?


Independent_Let89

ISA should be different. Just ask your broker! Would like to know the answer they give you


LEEH1989

Yeah I'll have to get round to it when I get abit of time, il save this post for later


EA_LT

You’re fine.


breinbanaan

Anyone knows if DeGiro uses CFDs?


Independent_Let89

No CFD, but they have an American custodian. De Giro won’t even lend out shares but I guess the custodian does


breinbanaan

Citibank is above DeGiro and I dont trust citibank for a cent.


Independent_Let89

True, but that’s not DeGiro’s fault per se


breinbanaan

I just fucking wanna know if my shares are safe and real lol. Especially with the small insurance of only 20k if DeGiro goes bankrupt.


Independent_Let89

Ik heb er ook nog 50 staan, ik heb er vertrouwen in


breinbanaan

Do you know the american custodian for gme?


FluckMelvin

I'm with XTB which does both cfds and cash accounts. All my shares are in cash account. Transferred in 5 days. Life is good.


Independent_Let89

Added still because they have CFD as well


jscum69

Big shit right here hidden under 100 up votes.


Independent_Let89

Upvote for visibility


neltorama

If you use leverage you have CFDs, I if you don't then you have shares. Very simple.


Independent_Let89

Not true actually. Even without leverage


Naked-In-Cornfield

This is factually not accurate. The number of TDA posts showing that their DRS was delayed because of "reasons" is all the proof I need. Also, the fact that my cost basis is still fucked up from January. RH never bought shares. That's CFD.


FluckMelvin

report it !


LaserGuidedPolarBear

FYI, CFD is illegal in the US.


Independent_Let89

One of the good bans…..US uses internalizers


The_Meatyboosh

Swings and roundabouts. Pfof is illegal in Europe.


Tothhemoon

Add CMC for europe. After reading a comment yesterday about this it gave no meaning having CFDs anymore. Going for real shares now. (YES I sold GME CFDs)


Independent_Let89

Added


droppedoutofuni

Remindme! 4 hours


coitoman

Ape from chile here, i know i have cfd's i asked my etoro rep ans they only work with cfd's on my country. I've been searching for a new broker but there aren't any good ones besides the international ones that need crazy capital requirements to open an account. And if I want to change I have to sell and buy again in the other broker and that terrifies me.


Independent_Let89

There must be a lot of shares available from Al those Brazilian puts. 😂 When you don’t have any other option, you must but I would keep on searching for a different option.


keonijared

Pardon if I'm wrong here, but can you not Xfer over to IBKR, then DRS?


Independent_Let89

No, CFD are not shares so no transfer


keonijared

Omg- so in Brazil/Chile, they *never can even own actual securities in a US company?* Just can buy exposure to security value? It's funny, none of the brokers there say that up front I'm guessing, as it seems like CFD is an overall surprise to many of us that are relatively new to trading.


Independent_Let89

This is why I write this


EA_LT

That’s not as simple as that. CFDs are instruments with a purpose, not just a simple replacement for securities, so to speak. Brokers that allow it list it as a separate account as they have a different nature (like Spread Bets).


Independent_Let89

They do have a purpose, especially for those large commodities trades


FarCartographer6150

You say buy and hold will never impact the price of an CFD share. But selling them does? Or not? Just wondering if it would make sense to sell an CFD share after buying them via Computershare or IBKR and had them transfered to CS. Might be better that way… 🤔?


Independent_Let89

Huh? No….. You’re mixing it up. I am saying that CFD is not a share. So buying and selling CFD contracts does not impact price. What you need to do I can’t say since I don’t give advice and we should all make our own choices. My choice is to buy at IBKR (IEX routing) and transfer partly towards CS