T O P
ConTheLibrarian

Yo his channel is legit and making a living doing this shit is nigh impossible. It's just marketing nbd. I've literally seen his dad choke slam osoto him. **Respect earned.**


nmfisher

I believe the traditional Japanese term for that technique is “Rock Bottom”


Rome_Leader

As a pro wrestling fan who is a judoka, it pisses me off when they call a Rock Bottom an ura nage


1980XS1100

If anything the rock bottom would be a kuzure uki otoshi but realistically the form and process of the rock bottom would never actually work a grown man isn’t lifting another equally sized grown man and slamming him using only a stiff arm across the chest


OriginaljudoPod

Ahem... https://youtu.be/NsIzGn7r1Ks There's a few like this, some with 'normal' side collar grip, usually off an osoto counter. This ain't a bad rock bottom to win an Olympic final tho...


1980XS1100

What makes this ura nage? Ura nage is a sacrifice throw his foot work was not that of a sacrifice throw he fought hard to keep his feet planted looks like his hand went down for a kata guruma didn’t have it so he forced him in the direction he resisted to looks like an uke otoshi that he stumbled on the execution of to me 🤷🏻‍♂️


OriginaljudoPod

It's not ura-nage. It is a rock bottom.


1980XS1100

Oh my apologies I thought you were agreeing that that was a ura nage lol


OriginaljudoPod

Should say the video is not mine...


lamesurfer101

This is peak r/judo.


beyondgrappling

Lol


Samhain27

Right.. it’s clickbaity but that’s par for the course… even really amazing martial artists often make next to nothing. Judoka in the U.S. are way worse off. Dude puts out tons of free content on YouTube. I wouldn’t roast him or the marketing team for wanting to make a living.


OpportunityIcy6458

You’re rolling your eyes at a coral belt who was on the Olympic team? Shintaro is not only legit, but he’s super gregarious and friendly in person and the fact that he’s trying to preserve leg attacks in a post-no-leg-grab world is laudable. Don’t be such a hater.


Lasserate

I'm likely rolling my eyes at the Judo Fanatics marketing team. That being said ... if Shintaro did happen to write that advertising copy, his skill as a fighter would not shield him from my derision. On an unrelated note, I don't believe he competed in the Olympics.


OpportunityIcy6458

I think he and Gary were alternates


OldBreak6

My local judo school allows all leg grabs in sparring and at most, 10% of all scores come from a leg grab technique.


Gargamel2003

What's the teaching of leg grabs during technique time like though? My dojo has one day a week where leg grabs are allowed, every now and then someone will throw with a leg grab however leg grabs aren't taught at all during technique time


Grapplebadger10P

That’s why it’s “every now and then”. I live in the US Midwest where wrestling is prolific. It’s all the time here. When leg grabs are allowed that is.


1980XS1100

That’s sad I’m sorry your taught judo this way what is and isn’t allowed is politics the art and techniques are the teachings of judos founder jigoro Kano and those should come before all competition teaching


chu42

But that could be based on people mostly training throws instead of leg grab techniques. Bring someone with a wrestling background in there and it's the opposite, he'll probably score mostly with leg attacks


d_rome

Ten percent sounds about right.


koloros

I'd literally sign up for that, doesn't sound bad tbh


Affectionate-Knee721

they were banned for several reasons, ——— 1. people were overusing it 2. it was crazy effective but taking away from the sport 3. the falls were a bit more difficult to control 4. it served to make a clean break between judo and wrestling in the olympics 5. ect… —— the reasons are many and varied, people have been theorising on it since the ban, some even blame the Russians for overusing it


koloros

Also may I add how stupid the first point is? People weren't "overusing" it, it just worked. The idea of "overusing" a fundamental part of your art is so ridiculous. It's like saying people are overusing throws. Not that it was used that often to begin with. Sure you'd see leg grabs but you'd also see all the other stuff we see today. It just had more variety back then.


create_a_new-account

> It's like saying people are overusing throws. its not even remotely the same


koloros

Yeah not to offend but all of these are bullshit reasons. If it's effective it's effective, that's what I care about.


Affectionate-Knee721

if you don’t fall properly and you twist your neck, will you care then ?


lueckestman

Welcome to combat sports...


koloros

And a punch to the liver can kill you more easily than you'd think, I'll still partake in boxing though. Nearly every sport includes risks, especially if it's martial arts. Are you gonna tell the racing driver not to drive fast because it increases the chance of crashing ?


Affectionate-Knee721

ok then, let’s include under belt strikes in boxing ! that’s effective


koloros

It's effective ngl. Actually they teach you that in many self defense classes for women because of how effective it is. But there's a difference between banning effective things for the sake of money and banning things because they're unsportsmanlike or straight up goofy. How many people do you think would take kickboxing seriously if it was just a ball kicking competition? It's all about how much a competitor is willing to risk, which is why punches to the back off the head are nearly always forbidden, as there is no real counter to it once you've gotten yourself in such a situation and few would be willing to subject themselves to risks that high. It's all about nuance really.


Affectionate-Knee721

oh… it’s difficult to counter… it’s unsportsmanlike…and people might not be up to it… it’s almost as if you are talking about leg grabs


koloros

First of all you can countrr leg grabs. Second of all what is unsportsmanlike about leg grabs?


Affectionate-Knee721

how on god’s earth do you conter a leg grab on an opponent that is crouched down and who nearly tackles you? when you overuse something it takes away from the other things if i am someone who does flawless throwing techniques and i get paired with someone who bowes down for my legs all day long it takes away from my throws, it makes it impossible for me to throw him if one does something that is making me uncomfortable continuing the sport, it is called unsportsmanlike. same with B.O. same with bellow the belt strikes


Affectionate-Knee721

oh oh we can also have them take away the gloves, bc who needs security!! as long as you completely destroy your opponents and leave them with lasting damage


koloros

You realize gloves do jackshit to protect the other opponents? It's to protect yourself. Also there literally is a thing called bare knuckle boxing so it's not even a requirement lmao. Edit: Boxing will leave you with permanent dammage either way.


CodeMe09

Looks like an interesting instructional for gi BJJ. I knew my lurking would pay off


Lasserate

If you want an instructional, this is the one to buy: https://judofanatics.com/products/the-ultimate-takedown-series-volume-1-gripping-kuzushi-by-travis-stevens


dovalus

They were banned by the ijf because they didn't want wrestling and judo to look to similar. That's litterally all. "Too effective" is just click bait. Man and I like shintaro too.


BlockEightIndustries

No. Players used to score koka and then dive at the legs, pretending to attempt leg grabs so they could run out the clock. Instead of enforcing false-attack penalties or allowing this to be punished in newaza, the IJF made a poor rash and poor decision to eliminate them.


dovalus

Disagree. When the Olympics consider removong judo from the list judo adjusted to make it more dynamic and less wrestling.


SneediorSeedizen

Judo should have let itself be removed before bending to the will of the IOC. Imagine actively making a martial art worse to appease people who don’t care about you.


Lifting_Big_Feels

Exactly what happened to Taekwondo.


d_rome

This is very small and localized thinking. The entire Judo landscape would have collapsed, many NGBs would have closed shop, dreams would have been crushed, and Judo would become virtually non-existent in many countries. Judo is the most popular grappling sport in the world. That goes away without the Olympics and all for what, to preserve some fictionalized integrity of Judo? If you're not training leg grabs then blame your Judo instructor not the IJF.


dovalus

Exactly this. Getting into the olympics means whole nations will move mountains to win gold. It means starting students training young for lifelong higher peak skill, it means whole organizations will form to bring the best athletes. It means the who sport will thrive because out of 10000 practicioners 1 might make it nationally and from those thousand 1 might compete at Olympic levels.


lamesurfer101

This is all true. There's no denying the power of being an Olympic Sport. Judo is a powerhouse worldwide, because of it. But it remains a Faustian Bargain all the same, insofar as individuals with no relation to Judo can make deep and lasting changes to the sport with the leverage. Fear of those individuals can cause the IJF to do the same. Its not wrong to feel some apprehension about that. Like you said, "You want to survive, you need to adapt. It isn't right, but it's required."


dovalus

I don't disagree. But tell that to boxing, wrestling, taekwondo, karate, and judo. Those all being the most popular martial arts in the world. You want to survive, you need to adapt. It isn't right, but it's required. 🤷


Flamengo123p

>Those all being the most popular martial arts in the world. I suppose so, Olympics effect. Probably a lot of sports that ... \*ahem\* would be a guilty pleasure of mine if I played, are popular because of the olympics, more because of kids than anything else. Whether this should be considered a relevant reply to what the friend above said or not is another story. And of course, lets not pretend like boxing depends on the Olympics to be popular. Judo strongly attached itself to the Olympics, so did wrestling. Nothing wrong with that. One can still complain about the ban on leg grabs on one, and the ban on all kinds of submissions on the other.


dovalus

I don't disagree. Olympics, for better or worse, do affect popularity a lot. Tkd did become more sportified when it became an Olympic sport, so did karate and judo. Im sad that many judo studios stopped with the leg grabs, I'm also sad many tkd studios stopped with practical self defense, and I'm sad karate is going to same way as tkd, but that is between you and your studio, not the style as a whole. The original point was simply that judo changed it's over all rules set to accommodate the Olympics which has helped it grow.


Flamengo123p

Yes, I can see how insisting on this debate makes someone sound like a crybaby. But I also think that not handing the power over to the organization so easily is a good way to mitigate it throwing the baby out with the bathwater. ​ Good talk.


The_Asian_Viper

I'd say bjj is definitely more popular than Karate and Taekwondo.


Gargamel2003

This is very very wrong, don't know about taekwondo but there are around 40 times more karate practitioners than BJJ practitioners worldwide


The_Asian_Viper

Oke so I looked it up and it turns out karate and taekwondo are more popular than bjj. I guess bjj is a real niche sport as I see and hear a lot from it on social media, not more than boxing but still.


Gargamel2003

I can see your thought process though, I think BJJ is very popular among serious martial artists with a deep and vast experience of martial arts, but stuff like karate and taekwondo is really popular for kids and such


dovalus

Yeah, mma bros talk about BJJ a lot. It's kinda like crossfit, the guy you know who does CrossFit makes it so much a part of their personality that everyone knows they do crossfit. That's why you hear about it, but tkd and karate are still the most widely practiced eastern martial arts in the world, partially because they're done in schools with children, and the same for wrestling and (previously) boxing in the west. Almost specifically to start grooming them for high level competition at a young age for many studios.


Grapplebadger10P

I know that’s true right now but I wonder for how long.


Gargamel2003

A very long time I imagine, at least as long as BJJ fees remain so hardcore


Grapplebadger10P

I know this is only one data point, but the tae kwon do fees in this town are higher than any of the jujitsu figures… Though I will note the judo fees are lower. Just saying.


ukifrit

Since then lots of new and weird and wonderful techniques arised. Judo isn't dead because you can't spend the whole match trying sloppy morote-garis and kibizu-gaeshis.


judoisgreat

I spoke to Neil Adams about this. He said it was because Judo looked too much like Wrestling and in his words, the IOC said Judo better get its house in order.


d_rome

It's that simple yet so many refuse to believe it. They want to cling to this fantasy that the rules changed because freestyle wrestlers were dominating IJF events.


judoisgreat

I'm not sure how people clamped on to this idea that it was banned because of wrestlers. Heck, if you ask Neil Adams today, I'm sure he'll say the same thing.


koloros

As far as I know Judo wasn't even the one on the chopping block, Wrestling was.


judoisgreat

Judo was on the "chopping block" years ago. I spoke with Neil Adams about it then and I posted above what he said. It was a long talk about other things in Judo but that is what he said about why this got banned.


BJJaddicy

No they were banned by the IOC


dovalus

The IOC didn't ban them, the IOC doesn't control judo over all, nor does it want to. It just wants exciting sports. They told the judo federation to either change it up to make it look less like wrestling with uniforms, or they won't be invited back as an Olympic sport. While effectively the same thing, it was the judo governing bodies that chose to do away with leg grabs in competition as the method of change. The IOC didn't care what changes they made.


create_a_new-account

> It just wants exciting sports. HA HA HA HA that's why the karate guy won after being knocked out


dovalus

Like I said, other IOC doesn't set the rules. I wouldn't be surprised if karate wasn't invited back any time soon .


BJJaddicy

Yeah thats what i meant


create_a_new-account

you're really clueless aren't you


Lasserate

About a lot of things, yes. About the relative effectiveness of leg takedowns and why they were removed from IJF sponsored events, no.


dhawkins1988

I love Shintaros stuff. Whoever is complaining about the IJF banning leg grabs, I encourage you to check out Freestyle Judo.


Sharp-Bee-1832

If leg grabbing were allowed again then you won't see Uchi Mata throws as often in competitions as there is now.. lol 😂


Which_Cat_4752

I like leg grab but I personally don’t mind leg grab ban in Judo tbh. I feel it’s more of a cultural thing. Eastern Asian folk style wrestling usually has a cultural element that heavily focus on upper body control/maintaining upright postures. If you look at shuaijiao and Bokh, they would penalize if your knee touch the mat. Even though you could have get up easily from that position, but the fight is considered as over. I remember when we used to got into fight on school yard, boys would start to wrestle and no one ever thought of going for the leg because it was a kind of “cheating”. And after a successful throw winner would actually stop immediately and often help his opponent up, ask the boy who got thrown if he would like to try it again or just surrender. It’s a way to prove superiority. “ I can get you to the ground while I’m still standing upright”. Of course I love leg grab technique but as long as we can train it from wrestling it doesn’t bother me that much that judo banned it in competition.


koloros

>I remember when we used to got into fight on school yard, boys would start to wrestle and no one ever thought of going for the leg because it was a kind of “cheating”. Wow our childhood wrestling sessions were utterly different


Which_Cat_4752

Did you guys do double leg loll


koloros

You bet we did. When you're a kid, it's always easier to use leg grabs to bring down taller opponents than you, especially when you're me who's not too tall to begin with. Also it was just really funny.


eastcoasets28

20 years ago when leg grabbing was legal, I’m guessing less than 10% of scores were from leg grabs, that included the obvious like morote gari/ doubles, te Guruma etc and also just grabbing legs as counters. I have great respect for Higadhi s d his stuff his excellent but that last line is just silly. I’m hoping judo fanatics is responsible for bad copy writing.


1980XS1100

I will say modern judo is heavily watered down to cater to whiners and Karen’s really like ok kani basami is a dangerous throw but ura nage is still allowed and is just as dangerous if not more it’s political crying that causes watered down judo


koloros

It's watered down and that's pretty much objective. If you take away effective techniques it's watering down. But that doesn't make modern Judo bad, even if I preferred the old system. I also don't see where politics get involved, I think it's all about money which is also sad but inevitable in this world. I still dislike the IJF though


1980XS1100

It doesn’t make it bad but it definitely removes it from martial arts tradition it’s definitely great to focus most on what you find effective but ask the average brown belt what kani basame is and I bet majority can’t even describe how it’s done let alone execute it


Black-Seraph8999

Sounds like a cash grab