By - darkfirefly96
I think it also shows how much La’gaan’s character has grown. remember how possessive and jealous he was in season 2, we see that he’s grown beyond that and is in a loving trustworthy relationship
*Edit La’gaan not Garth
Which was warrented, it was clear to everyone including himself that he was literally a rebound guy. Even further than that he was never posessive, the only reason we saw it in that manner is because instead of Superboy wanting to be around M'Gann it was La'gaan. I feel for my boy.
I think you mean L’Gaan
I don't really see the growth. I see the rapid onscreen change from in a monogamous relationship in season 2 to in a poly relationship with a kid on the way in season 4.
I'm not personally supportive of these types of relationships, but what 2, or more, people do in their personal lives is none of my business as long as they're not hurting anyone.
My point is that it doesn't feel like development or growth it feels like change for the sake of inclusion. I would have liked to see all of these new relationships grow organically. I guess that's the downside of these super long time skips is that there's so much story that we just don't see.
I agree that I like to see the representation! My only qualm is that with the time skips and how much has changed, I feel a little disconnected from some characters.
Not saying that we NEED a back story on everyone's sexuality... just that I personally miss seeing relationships develop.
I agree. I would have loved to see how people meet and decided to start there relationships.
Say non-binary poly person 5 times fast that is hard lmao
I majorly agree. This seasons been absolutely fantastic with inclusion that doesn't feel over the top or forced on the writing team. They took the time
I love it, and how well they’re giving the representation as well, and it genuinely (to myself, I know not everyone will agree) doesn’t feel forced to me at all. Not like they’re pandering. But it feels more like they’re informing us, instead of talking down to us.
It's really cool, I like it too.
I'm not a fan of the poly relationship, just cause I think it's really unecessarry. It doesn't do anything. I don't think every character needs to be in a relationship or have us be told what they're sexuality is. I seriously don't care.
I think theyre just showing it as a fact of life. When you go out and interact in public spaces theres a possibility to run into people in a poly relationship, among other identities. Having L'gaan call out in worry for his partners is normal, they arent calling attention to it negatively or even positively it just is. You dont have to care its just something that exsists.
I mean, I guess. I know I've never seen or met a poly person, mostly because it's pretty rare in Canada. I'm just really neutral I guess, and kind of tired in having to get invested in characters personal lives so much. But if others like that, power to you.
lmao I dunno why people are downvoting your comment. You're being perfectly respectful from what I can tell
Thanks. Idrc, people can do whatever they want. Opinions are spicy.
I really like learning more about the characters' personal lives. It makes them much more relatable in my opinion.
Yeah that's completely fair. I just enjoy different parts of the show more, but I'm glad you like that stuff.
I can respect your opinion and how you feel. I understand that you don't care. Personally, I like seeing myself being represented in a way that is not undermining.
Yeah that's completely fair. Representation is cool. I just don't want it to be the whole point of the show, but I also don't really have a complaint with how this shows been handling it.
Why? His opinion is directly harmful to you and stupid besides
Why do you respect his opinion. You're making people that hate you comfortable at your own expense
He never said he hated me. People are scared of things they don't understand. I am not going to hate someone because of them not understand something. I might not like their opinion but I am also not going to spew more hate onto this world when there is already enough of that going on. Giving hate to someone dose not help the situation at all.
He doesn't have to hate *you*. And no one is saying you have to hate *him*. You're showing compassion and understanding to someone who would rather you be invisible. It's wild cuz I can tell you don't face any actual marginalization IRL cuz this is primo chump behavior
You dont know me at all. you think you doubt you don't and you can't assume anything. If you did know me you would know that I and my partner just lost a friend of 8 plus years because of hate. You would know that her grandparents want nothing to do with her and I because we are in a gay relationship. You would know that my biological mother kicked me out when I was a teenager because I kissed another girl. you would know that we can't walk down the street holding hands without getting stuff yelled at us. Just because I show compassion to someone does not mean I am not marginalized. Just because I said I can agree to disagree with someone does not mean I am not marginalized. I deal with hate every single day of my life from strangers and even family. You don't know me so you cant speak about what I have and have not experienced.
And you’re telling them what to think and how to feel. Stop trying to force them to act the way you want them to act dude you’re the one being an asshole here.
Things in life don't happen on a "necessary" basis.
I mean, it's just not very relevant. So are a lot of other things.
I’m not a fan of all the straight monogamous relationships, just because I think they’re really unnecessary. I don’t think every character needs to be in a relationship or have us be told what their sexuality is. I seriously don’t care.
Yeah 100% agree. Show me more non-romantic character development. I want more of Impulse and Jaime in Season 2 than I do Connor and M'gann in Season 1.
Feel that. But I think it’s to make the characters more like real people. The show has really been about doing that
Yea, in my opinion I preferred how they did that in Season 1 more, but I don't mind it that much.
What could they change so you would feel it was "necessary"?
Idk. Maybe if it was more relevant characters that had more setup or development. I know the show has a huge cast, so that's kind of an impossible ask.
So unless the relationship is part if the plot you don't want to see it? Too bad. The angry bigots who want LGBT peoples' identities to not be the totality of their importance outvoted you forever ago, my son
I can't tell what part of this is sarcasm. And I don't really want to know.
Honestly, it didn't work for me, although I understand the creators' good intentions.
I like the fact that La'gaan moved on, I even expected that when the Arc of Kaldur approached, I found all three of them were distracting, the pregnancy made me stop thinking **"Wow, this representation is great!"** and it made me start thinking this **"Wait, how does this work? Are there three beings of three different species expecting a baby? Like what? I have so many questions."**
Kaldur for me is still the best representation of the series, and I think he will hardly be surpassed.
As someone who has poly parents, it’s only as complicated as you want it to be.
Parenting isn’t just flesh and blood it’s raising a kid as your own.
I really liked seeing this side of polyamory in my favorite shows as it portrays it as something normal and uncomplicated.
I can see why people can’t understand it but it only becomes so difficult to understand people people tend to think to hard about it.
I think they mean, like, how does that happen biologically. We might assume that either La'gann or the husband are the biological father, but in a world of magic and different species, maybe that's not a given. Could all three share DNA? And how does it work with them being different species?
I'm not confused on how they will raise the baby it's obvious they will all be the parents, just like a couple would raise a child together, but given the sci-fi and fantasy elements in this show I am curious how the baby was made in the first place.
Being poly isn't lgbt representation like a poly relationship could be a straight one
Edit: you can literally have a poly straight relationship, so wtf. Not everyone in poly relationship needs to be romantically/sexually invole with each other
That is true however the point I am trying to make is that there is an LGBT representation and a Poly relationship. There is still representation there
Technically you're correct, but from what I recall we see L'gann kissing both his wife and his husband, and he clearly has romantic feelings for them both, so in this case I'd say it's a moot point.
I mean not really
A polyamourous relationship requires 3 people.
And there are only 2 sexes.
So at least some of the involved parties have to be non-straight.
I think they could be referring to poly relationships that would include, for example a heterosexual male who is dating two heterosexual females, and those two females are aware of each other and may even live together without being romantically connected to each other. While the same is possible with LGBT connections, like for example April’s early relationship in parks & rec.
I dunno I feel like those should not be considered the same thing.
Those kinds of relationships bother me because they aren’t equal. It reminds me of Joseph Smith and how he had multiple wives due to tricking them in his cult. Some of them were even related to each other…
Polyamorous equal relationships seem good but unequal relationships seem like they are just taking advantage of people.
Just cause it bothers you doesn't make it not poly
Yeah I guess but it’s definitely a different kind of poly
a poly relationship where someone dates two people but the two partners don’t date is called Vee type of relationship and it can be totally valid, healthy, and def poly
Can it? I don’t see how it isn’t just an open relationship but for only some of the people in the relationship. It sounds toxic and controlling.
If all partners are consenting adults in agreement and it works for them, then yea. That’s kinda the point. Depends on what people want. It also doesn’t stop the other partners from being in other Vees as well or having casual relationships in that model if that’s part of their agreement. It would all come down to what people agree to.
I understand that in patriarchy there can be a history of people using it in toxic ways but that doesn’t make the model toxic. I think forcing poly to mean everyone in the pairing has to be with each other can be just as unhealthy. Some people just wouldn’t be attracted to each other.
You’re projecting a lot here.
Not everything is projecting goddamn.
I don’t understand how the model isn’t toxic. It’s built on control and inequality. “They’re consenting adults” isn’t really an excuse what I’m saying is it’s a manipulative environment.
The dude just has two girlfriends. If they're not involved with each other *at all* then it's not three people in one relationship
>Edit: you can literally have a poly straight relationship, so wtf. Not everyone in poly relationship needs to be romantically/sexually invole with each other
I don't know why you got so many downvotes. Being poly doesn't mean you have to be LGBT.
That particular relationship *is* LGBT though. And straight poly relationships are *also* highly underrepresented, so including one would still be positive representation for an underrepresented community even if it’s not really part of the LGBT community.
Its lgbt since lgaan is into the guy/husband, not because it's poly. If they were both women, the relationship wouldn't be lgbt
Did you just not read my comment or…? I literally *said* not all poly relationships are LGBT, but that doesn’t mean they deserve or need representation any less.
Also, if he were married to two women who were *also married to each other,* uh, yes, that’d still be LGBT. What are you smoking?
This one felt forced to me.
Why did you feel it was forced?
I’m going to guess the reason it felt forced to them is because it existed.
I guess so but I would love yo here there resing behind it
I wouldn't say it's forced, but Lagoon Boy going from overly attached and jealous type to being in a poly relationship was literally the last thing I think anyone would have expected.
It shows that growth did happen, and if he was a main character, I think we all would have liked to see how we got here.
The thing that bothers me most about it, personally, is that it kinda implies he might be a cuck of some kind. Like, it's fine to have a character who is poly, but they gave it to the person who was in an awkward love triangle thing.
I see where you're coming from, seeing as Laggon Boy was the rebound guy for M'gann, but I don't see it that way.
It honestly doesn't bother me all that much. It just seems like it didn't occur to them when they were writing it, or worse, it did and that's why they chose him.
Funny how the iT fELt fOrCeD crowd never says that about any of the popular heterosexual ships, isn’t it? 🤔
Yeah, for some reason I’ve never seen anyone complain about how Rocket and Kal’dur at the end of season 1 was forced even though they had almost no interactions before they kissed 🤔
Seems like you’ve decided without my input! Good for you!
I'm going to guess you judge alot of people without listening to their side.
There not much difference between you people and the extreme right - you stay in your bubble and refuse to subject your beliefs to any challenge or debate. If you were born in a different time or a different place, you'd be a rabid MAGA man or Hitler youth
Thanks for proving my point
I'm not sure that anybody proved your "point". Somebody laughed at your suggestion that they'd be a rabid MAGA or Hitler youth. Clearly they read (i.e. "heard") your side, or at least how much of your side you shared so far.
I have differing opinions from pretty much everybody here, but you don't need to make it political bro. He's entitled to his opinions.
These are box-checking exercises. They put lagann into the kaldur arc for the sole purpose of having a polyamorous character. Lagann plays zero role whatsoever in the main plots of the show.
They put violet into S4 for the sole purpose of sitting at a kitchen table talking abt their pronouns. Frankly I think nonbinary people and Muslims would be offended by having this half man half machine be the way they are represented. Violet wears a hijab but doesn't know why - that's insulting to the women who DO know why they wear it. Violet doesn't have pronouns because violet's not even human - that's insulting to people who chose to change their pronouns. And again violet has no role whatsoever in S4 plot.
There are better ways to organically incorporate diversity. The S1 team was diverse. Kaldur's relationship with his husband does not feel forced and actually is incorporated into the plot.
Do you think them showing Green Arrow and Black Canary as a couple was also a box-checking exercise?
I did not, that was incorporated into the plot nicely
I disagree about Lagann. I think part of it was to show that Atlantis has a different type a normalcy around relationships so queer and/or poly relationships are more common and not a prob at all.
Exactly. The show writes different characters in numerous different types of relationships and suddenly people cry out "they're just checking off boxes!" like these types of relationships don't exist in our everyday lives. Yep, I'm a straight, white, cis, guy but I'm not going to cry out "forced representation" because Kaldur or Zod are black, or because Artemis is half Asian (Chinese, I think, but to be honest, it was as unimportant to me as whether a character was American or Canadian), or because of any number of things that don't match me because I know that all of these differences in people exist and that they are all as normal/natural as I am. The people crying out "forced representation" are the same people who cried when a black woman was cast to play an orange space alien in Titans.
Paula is Vietnamese, I think, which makes both Artemis and Jade half-Vietnamese.
Gotcha. Thanks for the info. I hope that part of my comment didn't come across as negative :)
Not sure who downvoted this conversation or why lol. Are they mad that I don't care about race and am not a racist? lmao
Young Justice lately is more of a character-driven show than plot-driven, so that complain makes little sense to me
That makes it even worse. They introduced forager as a bug and violet as a half human half mother box. All these episodes later and that's still all we know about them. zero character development.
Are you even watching the show? Lmao
What? We know so much more about them. Forager struggles with integrating into human culture and often feels lonely because of how he was kicked out of his hive, which is all he’s ever known. He’s naive, curious, and feels a great sense of kinship with his newfound friends. When we first met him, he kept to himself and didn’t stand up for what he thought was right. Once he saw something he just couldn’t let be, he learned to step up rather than stand back with the crowd. He sacrificed his comfy and familiar life with his hive to save complete strangers. He struggled with being an individual because he was a member of his hive for so long, but with the help of his found family, he’s become his own person.
Violet, much like forager, was originally rather reserved but in a much more timid and quiet way. They struggle with their identity, not just with their gender, but with coming to terms with the fact that they are technically inhabiting a body that isn’t theirs. They have trouble separating themselves (Violet) with the body they inhabit (Gabrielle). They want to respect Gabrielle because it’s *her* body, but at the same time want to be their own person. Where we are now in the series, Violet has changed from a quiet, confused half zombie to someone who will stand up for themselves and others, as seen with their breakup with Brion. They are kind, caring, and compassionate, but also have a bezerk button that they need to get under control.
Both Forager and Violet have similar character development, but they still have the development nonetheless. Both of their arcs are about learning to be their own person and speak up for what’s important to them. Both of them were lost souls who found comradery with the Team but also struggled to adjust to their new lives. They are so much more than a bug and a half robot.
It would me seem everyone has already decided for me. No need to hear from the actual poster. Such tolerant people!
You're entitled to your side, but don't not share an opinion because you're scared. This is Reddit. What did you expect.
I have not decided for you and truley want to know why you think it was forced. I personally don't see it and want to know what others think. I am not everyone else
No thanks. I’m not gonna walk into a room full of people waiting to jump me.
So that makes me think there right then.
It doesn’t matter anymore.
So, rather than explain your point of view you're just going to sit back and do nothing, giving off the appearance that those who criticized your opinion are correct as to their reasoning...
You’re right I’m so intolerant
I really don't get the point of this comment. You'd rather behave like a whiney child than actually explain your point of view and then complain that people are assuming your reasoning. Just be a mature person and actually explain your point of view. Basically, put up or shut up. Linking to a post where you make a stupid poem is just silly.
How was it forced? Just curious
It wasnt really forced, it was more so just terribly executed. I have multiple non binary friends who have come out to me, and In my experience they've never sat down and awkwardly chosen their pronouns. It was always just "call me they please" and then I say "k" and that's the end of it.
So you’re generalizing the several anecdotal experiences you’ve had to every non binary person’s experience/method in the world? The show will never please everyone, but there are people who do in fact sit down and discuss their pronouns with those who matter to them.
I said "in my experience" which means in my limited world view. I'm not comparing them to all non binary people but if you interview 200 people on the street eventually you'll see an average.
The thing is though is that the writers made that scene mindful of the real people it reflects in society - it’s what they chose as the most relatable depiction they could do for non-binary people and their pronouns, while also being informative of the process to the general audience. Criticizing their action as “forced” or “terribly executed,” with your reasoning being the relatively few conversations you’ve had with several non-binary people, is you criticizing realistic conversations non-binary people do in fact have. You can argue semantics with “well I said in my experience,” but if you’re also acknowledging that your own view is greatly limited in the scope of this topic, then I don’t think you should be calling their writing decisions terrible unless it’s blatantly horrible, imo.
But this is a show. Shows aren't supposed to reflect reality unless it's a live action drama or something like that. This is a superhero show with magic, aliens and magic aliens.
A simple "I'm non binary, call me they" "k" would've been fine.
The number one way to represent lgbt characters in a show is to not draw attention to it.
Mass Effect 3 did it wonderfully with Cortez. The She-ra reboot and The Dragon Prince also did it very well.
That’s the end of it for you. And they never sat down and discussed it with you. They either sat down with someone else and discussed it, probably someone more accepting, or they sat down by themselves and thought it through. Just because you’re not involved doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen
Yep there it is. I'm not "accepting" because I dont make a big deal about my friend coming out.
You’re just completely unaware of how these things work and think just cause you’re out of the loop it means it shouldn’t be talked about
How am I "out of the loop"? So my friends who have trusted me enough to come out to me are wrong? They came out the "wrong way" according to you?
That’s not even what I said. You’re out of the loop cause you think conversations like that don’t happen. But they do, very often. Just not with you. I never said they came out wrong, you brought it up out of nowhere.
It was definitely implied.
I'm not out of the loop. I have never met anyone who sat down and awkwardly picks pronouns. If you ask 200 people on the street the same question you're eventually gonna find an average.
Oh ok I was thinking the OP comment was about Lagoon boys relationship.
I do not have any experience with someone coming out to me as non binary so I can’t really comment. I didn’t feel like that scene was weird at all, it being two close friends talking about pronouns, but again I have no direct experience
Maybe he was talking about Lagoon Boy lol. Theres just so many replies that eventually I just lost track of the original argument.
I mean there are like 10 other relationships with less development. Jaime and Tracy for example. Does that feel forced to you? Just asking btw.
I was so confused with that scene. Wtf is happening to our society……
It's three people who are in love that is it. They are all consenting adults. It's really not that confusing. There is nothing wrong with it. I myself have three partners that I love with all my heart.
I literally didn’t know why one person was kissing two other people. This is completely inconsequential to the story. Its nothing more than virtue signaling really.
So what were the issues of more than one person kissing? What about the other people who kissed in the show? Rocket and Kal? What did their kiss mean and why was it needed? That had nothing to do with the storyline? There were a shit ton of parts in the episodes that played no part in the actual episodes and storylines? Where they important or can we just not have that either?
Romance can have a major impact on a story. This kind of romance is not only inconsequential but distracting from the main story.
That is your opinion, not mine. There are Poly people out there who have multiple partners. I am one of them. It does not distract from the story line in my opinion. Hell, there are regular romance and relationships that distract from the story line but I don't see people talking about those.
I agree with you in the fact there are too many unexplored story lines in this show. We can have a conversation about this but were talking about this one. And yes they are just as poorly developed as this poly relationship.
It’s fine if you think this is cool. I just found this really distracting as this was first time I’ve ever seen a poly relationship in a show.
Like I said I respect your opinion. Just remember just because something is new does not mean that it is different or scary. It is just something that is new
By that logic you could say that pretty much any and all romances and relationships in the show are inconsequential to the story. Why did Rocket and Kal’dur have to kiss at the end of season 1, it has no bearing on the story. Why did Dick and Zatanna have to be a couple, it’s inconsequential to the story. Why do they show Dick and Barb living together, it doesn’t affect the story. In fact, you could say that with literally anything about a character that doesn’t have to do with the story. Why did they make Kal’dur black, that doesn’t have anything to do with the story. Why does Artemis have blond hair, that’s not story relevant. Why aren’t all the characters just featureless blobs, because in general their appearances don’t affect the story.
Relationships can major impacts on a story. Look at meg and Connor. It’s affecting her at an emotional level. You’re right, Dick and Zatanna didn’t have any grander context.
In this case, this poly relationship doesn’t affect the story at all. You can even do a story with the complexities of a poly relationship. That’s not explored at all here.
Things don’t need to have a “point”. In real life people just exist. That’s what La’Gaan and his spouses are doing. They’re just existing. Things can exist in fiction without having to serve a point. Like Kal’dur being black for example— they *could* use it as an opportunity to make a point about racism, but they don’t. And that’s fine. They don’t go into the intricacies of how Kal’dur’s life is affected by his race. He just exists. He’s just a black guy who exists. And that’s fine. La’Gaan’s situation is the same. He’s just existing with the two people he loves.
This is where you and I have to disagree. Aspects like this should have a point or be removed from the story. But that’s how I see things.
So why aren’t you complaining about characters who’s races aren’t relevant to the plot? Why aren’t you complaining about Clark and Lois being married? Or Dick and Babs being a couple? Wally’s parents are married and it doesn’t serve any plot purpose, how about that? Would your stance be different if La’Gaan just had one spouse? If he only had a pregnant wife with no third person, would you still be complaining that they shouldn’t have put La’Gaan in a relationship because it’s not relevant to the story?
I already answered this question. If you don’t want to accept my answer, that’s fine.
Have you never seen a piece of writing? There are plenty of unnecessary parts to the plot. Their there for other reasons.
So if he was kissing only one person would that make it more consequential to the story?
I have a feeling only him kissing a woman would make it “consequential”
What’s funny is that establishing L’gaan’s family is actually extremely consequential to the themes of the story. Not only does it establish personal stakes for L’gaan but his more balanced life with his partners makes for a really good contrast to Kaulder’s, so while Kaulder is running himself ragged as Aquaman and ignoring his and his family’s needs L’gaan has balanced maintaining a healthy relationship with his partners and his duty to Atlantis.
It’s Atlantean society……
Atlanteans are known to be degenerates, that's why god sunk them
TIL Vandal Savage is god.
Did you watch the show?
It was sarcasm my guy.
My point is vandal didn’t sink Atlantis
He literally did though. Did YOU watch the show?
Wow, very confidently incorrect. Klarion sunk it. Vandal watched
And Vandal ordered him to sink it.
You’re so dense. I was pointing it out because the other person wasn’t saying vandal was a god because he wasn’t the one to sink it. Klarion was and they were referring to him as a god. I feel like I’m talking to a five year old