Canandaigua hospital CEO says vaccine mandate could cripple health care systems
By - chaoseffect220
The health care system is already crippled because of how it is run. This is a long existing problem in the US that has nothing to do with the pandemic or any mandate. Hospital workers across the board are overworked and underpaid, and he's surprised he has vacancies he can't fill?
And this sort of "Any new safety regulation will cripple us" has also been parroted by countless businesses and industries through the years. And it's been nonsense every single time.
I remember when that dude who owns that BBQ joint (nameless and nameless) said Obamacare would make a hamburger cost $25.
That guy whines all the time. I have known ppl who worked for him and said he was a lame boss
I wonder how they feel about pre-existing vaccine mandates.
“That’s different.” Either that or some straw man built from fundamental misunderstandings of both vaccine risk and the fundamental risks of catching the virus in the wild.
Not everybody's underpaid: Stapleton himself made about $800k in 2019.
It's not nonsense in [this](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/09/12/lewis-county-ny-hospital-pauses-maternity-unit-amid-vaccine-mandate/8311448002/) instance. Mandates are directly responsible for this hospital unit being crippled:
>Six employees at the Lewis County Health System have resigned, and seven more are unwilling to get vaccinated, meaning Lewis County General Hospital will stop delivering babies for the time being, multiple news outlets reported.
>The move appears to be temporary. During the pause in maternity services, Cayer said, the health system will focus on recruiting nurses to get baby deliveries back up and running.
It's causing a localized temporary staffing issue in an industry that routinely understaffs. It's not crippling anything and it's nonsense to blame basic safety regulations for their unwillingness to adequately staff their services. This has been an ongoing issue, not something that came out of nowhere when the new regulation was announced.
The unit exists to deliver babies. It had to stop delivering babies because so many nurses quit due to the vaccine mandate that they can't staff the unit. This is literally the definition of "cripple":
>cripple, *verb*: cause severe and disabling damage to; **deprive of the ability to function normally**.
This is basic fucking logic. The mandates crippled a hospital unit.
Nope. It's temporary. And it's not some mandate. It's the refusal to follow basic safety regulations that made it unsafe for them to continue with that service until they fix the issue and are able to follow basic safety regulations.
I’m aware that at this point you know that you’re wrong and you just refuse to admit it. If you actually read those two articles, it’s very clear what’s going on. Albany’s mandate for healthcare workers to be vaccinated has already exacerbated staffing shortages (proven fact), and could cause even more damage (the point of the article in the original post).
Temporarily shutting down one service in order to comply with a safety regulation is not crippling it.
Temporarily shutting down one service at a tiny hospital in a rural area to boot
Man, I spelled it out for you and everything, but you’re still denying. Have a good one ✌🏼
If a hospital can't operate safely, it can't operate. It's that simple.
First, do no harm.
Wow man, you really are doubling down on the whole being wrong thing
It IS nonsense. That town has less than 5,000 residents and it's a half hour away from Watertown. Nobody WANTS to have a baby there in the first place. It's unfortunate that these backwards "medical professionals" have chosen to betray the science they themselves have based their entire careers on but not every small town can have hospitals with the full range of care offered in larger cities. They'll still have some people to deliver in emergency circumstances but won't be scheduling out the months upon months of C sections that most maternal wards would do. Boo hoo.
If the state & federal mandates are allowed to stand, you will see more of this… mark my words.
Thats OK, I'd rather have people in a scientific career who believe in science.
The alternative these dipshits fail to acknowledge is: I sure as shit don't want a healthcare worker taking care of a newborn while unvaccinated. Full stop. But they'll act all high and mighty about "rights" until their child is suffocating, then they'll froth at the mouth over how negligent the hospital was.
See more of dangerous simpletons who refuse to get vaccinated not being involved in my public spaces and healthcare? Fucking awesome! Sounds good to me.
County hospital stops delivering babies due to staff acting like babies. Fitting.
Yup. "We've got enough babies already."
damn, pour one out for the for-profit healthcare industry. Anyway,
I've got some backwash left in this coke can, does that count?
Thompson Health is a non-profit that’s part of URMC.
This is misleading. When your C-Suite compensation is in the 10s of millions, one must wonder - what does “non-profit” mean?
How does it compare to hospital administrator salaries in countries with state-run healthcare?
Citing an article from 11/2020 published in The Sun, the head of the UK’s NHS is thought to be paid about 270k USD annually. For comparison, according to nonprofitlight.com, the CEO of URMC makes 2.7 million annually.
The Sun is never a reliable source for any purpose, but that is definitely a strong contrast if true.
Amanda Pritchard is the CEO of the NHS in UK. Her salary is 255,000 pounds annually. A far cry from 2.7M. Hospital administrators in the UK average 145,000 pounds.
You’re comparing another countries wages. That’s not even remotely close to compare. That’s like asking if Rochester’s drinking water is better than Uganda’s.
THE PERSON WAS REPLYING TO A COMMENT ASKING FOR A COMPARISON TO COUNTRIES WITH STATE RUN HEALTHCARE YOU ABSOLUTE FUCKING MELON!
Which has had a vaccine mandate for months.
"Pre-COVID, we had 90 openings in this health system out of 1,800 positions. This morning, I have 294," Stapleton said."
Oh no, you're telling me he might actually have to offer competitive wages to fill positions?
Ridiculous system built on a flawed capitalist model falls victim to capitalism. Shocking?
Supply and demand, baby. If they can't fill positions they need to raise their salary.
Yeah that doesn't always work that way. Hospitals have a budget, you can't just offer whatever to get people in the door. You're not going to get more from any insurance company just bc you bill more to cover your overages. This is how you fall into insolvency. Then what good does a shut down hospital. The entire medical screwed overall anyways
If the hospital is run so poorly that it can't offer competitive wages without going under then it should be taken over by someone else.
About 130 hospitals have shut down in the past 10 years. Most of them in rural areas. So the under served are left more under served. Many only are able to operate or get what they need bc of wealthy donors. These are ones that aren't being bought out by "someone else that can" afford them is bc the money isn't there
The US has seen a net gain of 366 new hospitals in the last 10 years.
And how many of them are in larger urban areas vs rural ones?
How are you defining urban vs rural? Canandaigua is a city.
Being a city or town has nothing to do with it. Greece is a town and has over 4k more residents. Unity in Greece shutting down isn't going to effect people like a hospital in Canandaigua would.
And your net gain of hospitals came from a big boost in 2017, which hospitals have declined 9 out of those 10 years you cited
Relying on wealthy donors is the problem. Let’s go single payer already and allow our taxes to do better work than war mongering and paying war dogs.
You have a lot more faith in the government then I do
Raising the cost of healthcare doesn’t need to happen to improve wages of frontline medical staff. URMC is non profit and as a result has its tax records open to the public. Look up form 990, and you’ll see what they pay their CEO, CMO, etc. If they can afford to pay millions to the board members, they can afford to pay competitive wages.
Edit: Also, it is nurses quitting as well as ancillary staff. All ICUs in the area are running on fumes for bedside nurses. Everyone is going to travel and make the money they deserve, and I don’t blame them
Oh, no. Maybe they'll have to dip into their profits in order to provide competitive wages! Wouldn't that be terrible?
"My hospital system doesn't pay competitive enough wages to fill our open positions, and somehow this is the COMPLETELY SAFE AND FREE VACCINE'S fault and not the medical illiterate members of our staff and community who are more concerned about politics than your health"
It's interesting that people genuinely think that the folks that opt out of the vaccine and lose their jobs are going to what...take up another career path suddenly? Become homeless and never work again?
I'd bet that many of them realize that this isn't a bluff and once they miss a paycheck or two, their "deeply held religious beliefs" will suddenly not be an issue and they'll get vaccinated and head back to work.
I personally know two people that said they were not going to get vaccinated, and then got immediately vaccinated as soon as that decision inconvenienced them. And I've heard a lot of similar stories second hand. I have no doubt that the number of people actually fired because of this safety regulation is going to be way lower than then numbers they gave in this article.
Same. I had a friend who was opposed to it then immediately went out and got vaccinated when his job said he wouldn't have to wear a mask anymore if he did.
This is why requiring vaccinated people to wear masks is counterproductive IMO.
I'm with you. I think bars and sporting events should just require proof of vaccination to attend so people don't have to wear masks and can get back to normal again.
Ditto. A friend who is a correctional officer wasn't happy about our state issuing a vaccination mandate for all employees, but has reluctantly acquiesced once his job and salary was on the line.
Do you have any more info on the state mandate? Sorry... I'm not sure if you're talking about NY, or if NYS yet. I'm only asking because my brother and his wife are COs for Monroe County. They are anti-COVID-vax, and as far as I know, have not gotten the vaccine. I'm wondering what they'll do if and when it's enforced.
Just, I’m vaccinated so haven’t been paying that much attention other than the vague idea that NY state is requiring vax for all State employees. I believe that’s true but honestly haven’t loooked into it.
COVID Karen: "I'm never getting vaccinated."
Carnival Cruise: "Ma'am, you will not be allowed on our ship without a vaccine."
COVID Karen: "Give me that juice."
We all know Covid Karen loves her annual Carnival Cruise... all inclusive food, entertainment, and casino!
I hope that’s the case though I’ve heard it’s possible they can become traveling nurses and just go to other states for more money at the expense of uprooting their lives.
Personally I don’t think anyone that denies the most basic aspects of medical sciences should even be allowed to step foot in a hospital, much less work there, but I’ll take what I can get.
Any hospital that accepts Medicaid/Medicare is impacted by the mandate. That's most hospitals, which limits employment options for those who wish to remain in the industry while not being vaccinated. Traveling nurses will have only a few places to work, and probably in some rather remote areas. Yes, a hospital may opt out of Medicaid/Medicare, but that's going to mean a rather substantial loss of revenue.
>I hope that’s the case though I’ve heard it’s possible they can become traveling nurses and just go to other states for more money at the expense of uprooting their lives.
I think that was the whole point of the federal mandate. To prevent all the anti-vaxxers from concentrating in states like Florida and Texas where there are already high case numbers.
Travel nursing is way harder than people think. There’s a damn good reason there aren’t thousands more of them. You basically live in a hotel and work in the most crowded, desperate, underfunded, and understaffed hospitals out there. You might be working night shift or multiple shifts in a row, and you don’t know where anything is. It’s a rough job and a lot of travel nurses only do it for a couple years before moving onto something more stable
I mean they could get a different job at a place with less than 100 employees.
Sure, outside of healthcare which seems unlikely.
Yea I forgot to add that part. Yea they'd have to switch Careers.
A lot of positions in healthcare offer relatively low pay and don't require formal qualifications, yet are quite important to keep the whole system running. Yeah, we may not see lots of doctors and nurses changing careers, but that's really not the whole picture. I have friends who work in health care that say some of their best technicians are quitting due to the mandate; this is a real problem, and I think it's easy to underestimate how stubborn people can be about these kinds of things.
If you're willing to give up your income for bs you read on the Internet, you probably shouldn't be working in healthcare anyway.
I know a lot are saying they'll quit. I really wonder how many really will. I suspect a very very small percentage will. And I suspect many that do leave will return when the smoke clears and they're no longer viewd as martyrs.
Sounds like a problem with the for profit healthcare model we perversely run in this country. I'm sorry the crappy job with the low wage is so important that it's a real problem. Pay them more or make the jobs less terrible and maybe they'll stay.
Kinda funny about the religious thing. The catholic church made it clear they won't endorse any religious exemptions. I think only the really extreme groups will give out " notes".
Someone I woke with said ‘she’ll be rethinking her career when mandates happen’ yeah right. It has not happened since were a smaller company but I doubt she’ll actually quit. I know someone else that is pregnant and quit because she isn’t getting vaccinated. She’s pregnant and against it and doctors were pro vaccine even while pregnant so no doctors note for her. She’s not only loosing her job but also her maternity leave. She’s now working for us 🤔
Meanwhile most of the rest of the world is begging for vaccines and we can’t even convince a large part of the US to take them. I hate this timeline so much.
Do we really want people working in the medical field that don't believe in medical science?
I sure tf don't. If someone thinks prayer can cure cancer or vaccines make your balls swell or essential oils or horse meds cure covid, they're not qualified to give any medical care and I don't want them near me or anyone I care about.
The medical industrial complex does not care what you believe. It only cares if you unquestioningly follow protocol.
Because when protocols aren’t followed in medical situations people die? Imagine if surgeons refused to sterilize their hands before surgery because that’s just “unquestioningly following protocol”. Like I know your 2 brain cells must be very busy, but maybe you could use them to actually think every once in awhile.
Easy killer. Before you start with the personal attacks please explain to me how what I said disagrees with your statement.
Well clearly, according to the downvotes, I’m not the only one that thought your comment was disparaging following those protocols. If that’s not what you were doing perhaps you might want to make whatever you were trying to say more clear.
Well then maybe actually read a comment first instead of relying on downvotes to tell you how to feel.
I did read it. Still not super clear what you meant by it. Sorry.
The medical ~~industrial complex~~ industry does not care what ~~you~~ science-denier employees believe. It only cares if ~~you~~ said employees ~~unquestioningly~~ strictly follow protocol.
Thank you. That is more clear.
I've met the Thompson hospital CEO, if that's the guy in question
Dude is a dumbass, and more than a bit of an asshole.
Really because uhhhhh vaccines have been mandated for years without a problem.
You know what else will cripple your hospital? When all your employees call in sick because they have COVID.
Healthcare workers survived for a year without them, and now ~70% of the population has them? I don't think your point is valid.
I’m not sure what you are arguing here. Yes, healthcare workers survived when getting COVID, but not all. However, staff that got covid still were out of work for a chunk of time. All it takes is for a chunk of staff on a unit to be infected and you have an unrunnable unit. Protecting staff from being infected with covid prevents further staffing issues that cripple hospitals.
You know what else cripples a business? Hiring stupid people.
Pay some smart people. Teach them science like chefs know science. "This is how things are done or you make people sick"
If you can't follow safety rules, you're fired.
Smart people get raises and smart managers treat them decently.
People with a verified vaccine card on file get another dollar on hour. Problem solved.
If the meat packing companies can mandate vaccines AND their union secured paid sick leave in the process, we’re supposed to accept unvaccinated health care workers treating at-risk patients?! C’mon, their job is to process animals parts and they are accepting a vaccine mandate. Take the same precautions for your patients.
Happened at Wegmans. Had a couple of drivers bitch and complain up and down about not getting both vaccines. One who swears that it’s a microchip blah blah blah… some inside stuff happened and he got it. Edit: spelling.
It's not only the vaccine mandate. Many nurses are going Per Diem. I know of a few on my unit. Better wages than just working on a unit full time, but you never know what youre walking into.
The vaccine mandate certainly didnt help, and Im of the opinion we shouldve just continued masking since that's done a good job of protecting our staff and patients, though I 100% understand the mandate , too. I just fear the ripple effect. Time will tell, I suppose.
Good. Get those people out of there so new ones can come in.
If only. There is so much competition out there right now and lower level healthcare jobs don’t pay much at all. Why would you want to start a new job where you’ll undoubtedly be overworked for shit pay? Until they up the pay scale it’s going to be a nightmare.
I mean I guess a lot of that is regional. Where I live being a nurse even a new grad it’s one of your better options for pay and benefits.
What new ones?
New grads are on the way
Idk man the health care system is already pretty broken. Especially when healthcare costs more than a brand new car half the time you have to go to an emergency room even with insurance.
Serious question, do you not have to be vaccinated for any diseases for working in healthcare?
Hope all these anti-vax healthcare professionals are cool with the karmic baggage that comes from walking away from saving people's lives because of their own political victimhood complexes. I completely understand people needing to leave because of full on PTSD from the last year of trying to save people's lives who are dying of covid. However leaving because you are politically against mandated vaccines is possibly the shittiest hill to die on and to make other people die on too.
[edit: Dear Mr. Canandaigua hospital CEO]
Oh fuck off. I've had my fill of Professional People absolutely dogfucking on very fucking reasonable things we should expect from them. Your fucking bullshit is killing people. From hells heart I stab at thee.
Last years heroes who worked through a pandemic underfunded, under protected, understaff & overwhelmed are now being told they're POS for not getting the vaccine. I'm fully vaccinated and believe everyone should get vaccinated (unless you cannot medically). You will see some hospitals require the vaccine, hell my girlfriends rotations require it for her NP degree which is causing issues bc her school never informed the nursing students. That being said, other hospitals will realize a lot of medical professionals who are not vaccinated are going to lose their job at their hospital over their vaccination status & will scoop them. There's a huge shortage of nurses and to require the vaccine will cause it to be even worse. Those in charge, if they're smart, will not require the vaccine & will not have a shortage of nurses to hire.
> That being said, other hospitals will realize a lot of medical professionals who are not vaccinated are going to lose their job at their hospital over their vaccination status & will scoop them
That would be a great plan if there wasn't a federal mandate that all hospitals that take medicare (which is almost all of them) have a vaccine mandate.
Is that mandate in place, or is it proposed? Just haven't heard of that. A federal judge blocked NYS from mandating the vaccine for healthcare workers so it *seems* likely that there will not be a mandate for healthcare workers at a state level. If there's none at a state or federal level it will give hospitals the opportunity to poach unvaccinated healthcare workers from hospitals that will require the vaccine.
There are legal requirements for dozens of vaccines in schools and, I would hope, in medical care also. Adding 1 more to the slate of those isn't likely to get struck down.
It already was on Tuesday. The state has until the 22nd to issue a response. As of right now their are no requirements for healthcare workers to be vaccinated against Covid, which I think is the right thing, as it is a personal health decision. Just to repeat myself as I don’t want to be associated with the crazy anti-vaxxer crowd - I am vaccinated and believe everyone who can should get it, but don’t think it should be required at a state or federal level.
>other hospitals will realize a lot of medical professionals who are not vaccinated are going to lose their job at their hospital over their vaccination status & will scoop them.
Not other hospitals in NYS.
Can almost guarantee there will be hospitals in NYS that will not require the vaccine unless NYS requires it, but doesn't seem like it will since it got blocked by a federal judge.
NYS requires it. There is a recent lawsuit challenging this over religious exemption but NYS is requiring it.
>"Seventeen healthcare workers filed a lawsuit against Governor Kathy Hochul, State Health Commissioner Dr. Howard Zucker and State Attorney General Letitia James, alleging “their sincere religious beliefs compel them to refuse the COVID-19 vaccines that are currently available” and that the mandate violates the First and Fourteenth Amendments, the Supremacy Clause and the Equal Protection Clause of the US Constitution."
That doesn't mean NYS won't require it. It means it needs to clear this lawsuit and maybe allow religious exemption. Most of these workers do not have a valid religious exemption.
They're going beyond just religious exemption. At the moment there is no mandate for healthcare workers to get the vaccine, as they have until the 22nd to respond. Even if they allow religious exemption, the lawsuit would be resubmitted as they claim it also violates the 1st & 14th amendment, the Supremacy Clause & Equal Protection Clause of the constitution. I don't pretend to be a lawyer so I won't go into if they have a cause or not, I'm just an architect. My main point still stands, *if* there is no state or federal mandate then hospitals have the opportunity to poach unvaccinated healthcare workers from hospitals that will require the vaccine.
Yes, in the hypothetical scenario where some hospital systems have a mandate and some don't, the ones without mandate have a hiring opportunity.
Especially in the world we live in with a nursing shortage & healthcare professionals being treated poorly for not getting the vaccine.
How will other hospitals poach unvaccinated employees if it’s a national mandate?
Not if it's a national mandate. But if it's left up to the hospitals to decide (which it should be) hospitals will poach unvaccinated health care workers from hospitals that will require it. Just recently a federal judge blocked a NYS vaccine mandate for health care workers, so it seems possible that there will not be a state-wide mandate. Including that, public perception has been against a national mandate thus far, with only 39% of Americans supporting the idea of ~~a national mandate~~ businesses requiring employees to get vaccinated.
Where are you seeing the 39% stat? I’m seeing much higher numbers I would like to see if it’s something i missed.
[Pew Research Center](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/09/15/majority-in-u-s-says-public-health-benefits-of-covid-19-restrictions-worth-the-costs-even-as-large-shares-also-see-downsides/).
>"39% say most businesses in the U.S. should require employees to get a COVID-19 vaccine. Another 35% say businesses should encourage employees to get a vaccine, but not require it."
So I would like to correct myself, 39% of people surveyed say most businesses should require employees to get the vaccine. I apologize for the mistake.
I still want to understand why people care if others are vaccinated or not.
The vaccine does not prevent you from getting Covid.
The vaccine does not prevent you from spreading Covid.
What am I missing?
Holy shit. You're missing everything.
Tell me what I'm missing.
And...he is right.