T O P

I'm 2300 lichess and London System is the only opening I know.

I'm 2300 lichess and London System is the only opening I know.

HairyTough4489

Why not just do it? Nobody is pointing a gun at your head to force you into playing 3.Bf4. Just go 3.c4 on your next game instead


TheTurtleCub

\^ This is a great suggestion for a London player. Watch a few tutorials on the Queens Gambit, Finegold has a great YouTube series on it


dr_eh

I'm so confused. Just started learning London... Isn't it always 2. Bf4 ?


VeigarSupport

That’s the main theory these days, yes. It used to be 2.Nf3 for a long time.


HairyTough4489

Maybe... They'll transpose into each other most of the time. I was thinking of 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bf4 but I guess 2.Bf4 is fine in this move order.


lichess_is_better

Sometimes I play Queen's Gambit too but problem is the moves comes out otomatically in my mind. Sometimes I start a game and without thinking anything I find myself in move 8 playing London. As I said it is like an addiction


cmdrxander

What game length do you play?


lichess_is_better

10+ or 5+3 mainly


cmdrxander

I’m no expert, but I would suggest playing at a slower speed so hopefully you’re not so tempted to play the same old moves to avoid time pressure. Think of your current ELO as your London ELO. Your ELO for other openings will be lower so you will lose a lot more to start with if you use your main account. You could always create another account for learning other openings.


pixenix

Start learning new openings and play them. Accept the fact that at first you will go down in rating and this is just a part of the deal. Over time you will get better. I'd suggest the best plan is set a goal, that in say 3-6 months you will be at the same Elo but without playing the London. I have a similar issue with playing the Bird myself.


Promegrenate

what made you want to learn the bird instead of other openings?


Brinksanity

The fact that the black and white ideas are the same. Dutch and Bird can both be played in the Classical Dutch or Leningrad Dutch styles. That’s why I play the bird occasionally and why I teach kids the Dutch. Simple ideas that can be applied both ways. Plus, the theory isn’t looked at heavily at below 1800 levels.


pixenix

Just somehow my coach showed the idea of playing it. Tried it out once, got a really nice win. Then got a book on it(by IM Timothy Taylor) and got hooked to it. Weirdly enough i've never played much of the Dutch with black.


Brinksanity

You should give it a try! Leads to some really interesting games.


lichess_is_better

I actually started to play Queen's Gambit but it leads to identical positions most of the time. I guess I have to learn 1-e4


RemcoProgrammer

Identical positions to the London sounds very strange. Can you give an example?


lichess_is_better

Sometimes I push c4 instead of c3 after I castle, without exchanges I get similar positions to Queen's Gambit in some lines.


StenByggerBerg

After d4 d5 c4 e6 nc3 nf6 bg5 be7 How would you get a position from London that looks like it?


LfLnDNat5

I guess the Bf4 lines *kinda* look like the London


jeasdreksad

Why can't you get good positions in the London? Even some titled players play the London with good results. Post some games, it'll be easier to identify the problem.


lichess_is_better

There are some lines that I like playing but in some lines, especially against KID I really have a hard time. https://lichess.org/@/bedirhandilenn my account, you can check any game that I play with white pieces...


ckje

>le and endgame, If I manage to get an equal position in the opening, I most likely win my games. Problem is I can't get good positions out of the opening. London gives me no advantage and most of the You really seem to be going against some of the London theory in your opening moves. Probably why you can't get a good position. You also keep repeating some of the same moves which Stockfish even tells you it's not the best move. You can't expect different results with the same mistakes. Granted you would crush me in a game, but if you watch some St Louis Chess Club videos and Eric Rosen London videos you might get a different perspective.


lichess_is_better

Thanks, I use computer analysis after my games but computer don't tell me what is the idea, it just tells me best move. This is probably the reason why I can't play good London... I need to read or watch some London stuff.


TinyLites

Computer analysis isn't a replacement for real analysis. Get a physical board and play out the positions, look for alternatives yourself, try figure out *why* it's a bad move. Clicking through the first one or two sf lines is only going to get you so far


MajorOrgans

I play the jobava london and it slaps against KID. THEY DONT KNOW THEYRE PLAYING THE PIRC!


ExtremelyGamer1

That’s why i play d5 as a KID player before you turn it into a pirc


mukerflap

i play d4 nf6 nf3 g6 nc3 and if bg7 i can already count on a small advantage because i can play e4 and take the center and from there i play the be2 pirc which is a nice positional system and if d5 then bf4 bg7 nb5 and i just play that position and i genereally score well there


Roehn1

Abandon it and start 1.e4, 1.d4, or 1.c4. You may be more attached to the result than growth which is why you voluntarily play a system that gives you a lot of leverage to win games yet narrow the opportunity to give yourself opportunity to grow as a player and as a person. As an aside it may be beneficial to examine why you use negative language. It might help you in determining the answer to the above as well. Good luck!


TheTurtleCub

\^This is another good suggestion, rip the bandaid and start playing e4 for 3/4 of your games


dorkman76

Make an alt to try new openings if you don’t want to lose elo


TheTurtleCub

hey! our avatars were separated at birth!


CynicOctopus

Analyze your games. See which mistakes you make, what your strengths and weaknesses are, and what kind of position you like. More static or dynamic, open center or closed, kingside attacks or not, middle game or endgame. Do you prefer having dynamic play and static weaknesses or do you prefer having a sound structure but give initiative to the opponent? For example, when you look at the Sveshnikov after 9.Bxf6 gxf6, or the Grünfeld main line after 6.bxc3 Bg7. Do you prefer the White or the Black side? Or do you prefer more closed positions in general and don’t want to play either side of these openings? When you analyze your game, you should get an idea of which openings suit your style and your preferences. Look for openings that agree with you. Try them out in online games. Online games are low risk, because who cares about their online rating, and you can see which openings feel natural. This should help you to improve your game up to a point when it could be wise to choose openings that go against your style to fill gaps in your skill set, but that’s maybe something to look at when you’re an FM.


lichess_is_better

I usually play rapid and blitz and I also analyse most of my games. I know every line in London because I probably analysed every possible response so far. My playstyle changed over the years. When I was a kid, I used to play Scotch a lot and I had a very aggresive playstyle. I'm 22 years old now and I've been playing positional chess for 2-3 years. I love tactic shemes in closed positions and I want to be solid most of the time. Whenever I decide to study openings, something happens in real life (exams,social issues etc.) and I delay studying openings. What do you suggest me to study when I have time? https://lichess.org/@/bedirhandilenn my lichess account, you may have a look if you want.


CynicOctopus

I don’t have too much time to look into your games unfortunately, hope that's okay. That being said, sometimes a big change is better than a small one. Have you looked into 1.e4? They are called the “open games” or “semi-open games”, but in effect, they often lead to rather closed structures with static pawns, like in the Ruy Lopez or Italian main lines. You could play the Bb5-lines vs the Sicilian, 3.e5 vs Caro-Kann, and either Advance or 3.Nc3 (with 4.e5) versus the French. Don’t put too much pressure on yourself about how much theory you need to know. Have a look at some of the main lines, try to understand the underlying ideas of the openings, and just play. If the openings suit you, you should hardly see any decline in your results. Sometimes you just gotta try and see if it works :)


lichess_is_better

Thanks! I tried playing e4 last month but nearly lost all the games and became infuriated. I'm not going to lie by saying I don't care about rating points since I care, maybe I can open a new account for just practicing 1-e4. I know it is a cowardly approach but I don't want to put myself under stress when doing my favourite activity


TheTurtleCub

Try working on realizing a lichess rating is absolutely worthless, no one cares about it, and it won't get you anything. The ONLY use for it is to find opponents at your current level for that opening, which is EXACTLY what you need as you try a new opening


[deleted]

⬆️✅


CynicOctopus

That sounds like a good approach too, nothing wrong with that! :)


rl_noobtube

Cant you play unrated as well? Or does lichess not have that option


lichess_is_better

I don't think I will find any unrated matches in rapid but I can try that option too actually


rl_noobtube

Maybe try chess.com unrated. I have found games there. Better than smurfing imo.


lichess_is_better

I have a chess.com account that I haven't played much games in it, I can give it a chance but as far as I know I can't analyse my games there which sucks because I analyse every game.


rl_noobtube

You can export the pgn and then import it into whatever tool you use to analyze games if you can’t afford the cheapest paid option.


lichess_is_better

I don't want to gatekeep lichess but when I can easily analyse my games in lichess , I don't want to pay or use another tool for it. Also if I won 6-7 games on streak, I can stay in 2300-2400 which don't count as smurfing imo.


topelver

Easy to find


mukerflap

make alts thats what i do because i also care a lot about rating


teoeo

You need to play 2.Nc3 against KID and go for jobava set ups.


ExperiencedSmoker

Had the same problem before. I'd tell myself I was going to learn a new opening but in the end I'd be playing what I was confortable with. Tip is to get a new acc and play anything but London/ Najdorf there.


SuperSpeedyCrazyCow

Play 1.e4, study some lines and learn new structures.


mukerflap

i also only play the london but im improving fast with the London System and get a lot of great positions but more seriously it seems looking through your games that you have some theoretical gaps in your london knowledge for example: [https://lichess.org/vv3BvgYL#11](https://lichess.org/vv3BvgYL#11) [https://lichess.org/Ehp9uxhd#12](https://lichess.org/Ehp9uxhd#12) in the bf5 systems you really have to be going c4 and qb3, if you play the normal london setup you get 0 advantage and a super boring position and it seems like your just out of theory after bf5, you can learn about this better approach here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxSk\_y3xX8&t=122s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjxSk_y3xX8&t=122s) ​ [https://lichess.org/YHP6imgE#18](https://lichess.org/YHP6imgE#18) against this d5 c5 nc6 nf3 qb6 line i reccmond you start playing qc2 here instead of qb3 with the idea bf5 dxc5 bxc2 cxb6 axb6 na3 and nb5 to follow and you can get much better positions instead of playing qb3 ​ [https://lichess.org/zb1dNOA1#12](https://lichess.org/zb1dNOA1#12) against the bd6 qc7 nbd7 system you should play like nihal sarin and take on c5 followed by bd3 and going for e4 example game [https://lichess.org/wJmhr5yG](https://lichess.org/wJmhr5yG)


quackl11

Learn 2 new openings and if you catch yourself playing the London resign the game immediately if you play a different opening that your practicing find a random number generator and have it set 1-3. Spin it or click it or whatever and if it says 1 then you get a candy if not, no candy. This will train your brain to not want to play the London, and it will be faster than if you just give yourself a candy every time


ChessHistory

I’ve found it very helpful to have an alt account I don’t care about the rating at all where I just use it for experimenting


Gloomseeker123

Learn deeper London theory. And other 1d4 lines in case your opponent doesn’t respond with d5. Then you can still play the London and improve


Jamau31

🤮


AlexCdro

You could try a transition to other d4 openings: for instance, keep the London on d5 but play something else on nf6, where the London really isn’t that good. The trompowsky is an example of a line where there arguably isn’t as many transpositions as the rest, but really anything goes


Euroversett

Well you're stronger than me so I doubt I can help, but wince you asked... Learn another opening, make another account, and play only with that new opening. Eventually, I imagine, you'll reach a rating close to 2300. That's my plain for when I reach 1600 chesscom. I'll either play the Queen's Gambit since it's a bit similar, or move to e4 for a completely drastic change. And I should do the same for black since I almost always play the pirc/KID.


Combination-Unique

Pick up the other "turn brain off" system for white- the colle. J/k. Try something like the Torre or Trompowsky...or maybe rhe Jobava London


isyhgia1993

If you are great at middlegames, then gambits could probably net you some crazy elo ratings instantly,especially if you play fast.


lichess_is_better

I'm really bad at bullet 😔


SnooCupcakes2787

You could find alternative lines in those openings. They can be sharp so tightening those lines and themes in them can be helpful. Or as others mentioned play and expand your opening repertoire. Take your hit ok rating points. One step back 4 steps forward.


andakindi

Man I rarely comment on this subreddit but I hope you get your just deserts for being so drab.


Hellboy5562

Maybe practice new openings in your "off" time control. So like if rapid is your favorite then practice new openings as far as possible in 5+2 or something so you don't tank the rating you're proud of too much.


lichess_is_better

Why do you think that "I'm proud of my rating too much?"


Serious_Pineapple_47

I think he was saying: “so you don’t tank your rating, which your proud of, too much.”


lichess_is_better

Still, "proud of" part is not friendly. I haven't said anything about how superior ,how big I am with my beastly rating point. I just stated my rating because it is important when asking questions about chess. For instance, If I were a 1200 I wouldn't have to study openings that much.


ComradeChaosCat

They weren't trying to be unfriendly. You said you care about your rating, that's all they meant. I do what they are saying, if I get my blitz rating to an all time high I'll take a break from blitz and play 10+0 rapid instead of 5+3 blitz. That way I don't risk my shiny blitz rating but can still play at a similar time control.


poopstainmclean

i mean if i were 2000+ i'd be very proud of it and wouldn't want to lose that. i don't think they meant any malice, just a way to practice without backsliding the awesome rating you've achieved.


TheTurtleCub

Just for reference, 2000-2100 lichess rating is probably close to 1500-1700, average coffeshop player. use your rating to track your progress (improving or not), don't make too much of the actual number


TheTurtleCub

Your "studying openings" has paused your chess progress, by making you lazy and not having to think too much. Proud is not an insult, being proud of being a good player is good. But in this case it prevents you from actually improving your chess, where in reality a lichess rating has ZERO value in itself. Just because your rating is high doesn't mean you play at that level, clearly you play at a much lower level since you lose all other opening. And that's OK, there's nothing wrong with having a lower rating. Work on improving your game, forget about rating for a while. Regaining 200 rating points lost will be a breeze once you work on your game some more. You will even go higher once you force yourself to actually PLAY/THINK more during the game.


im-on-the-inside

Well if you care about rating.. just use a different website and try all kinds of openings there :)


CashFlowHedge

Try the queens gambit. It’s really similar but different. That small change will get you exploring.


Weekly_Program_2230

I get what you're saying, I reached 2050 recently on lichess rapid recently and havent really played that format much since then cause I don't want the beautiful rating to decline. Sooo what I just do is go on [Chess.com](https://Chess.com) and play rapid there, where I don't care about my rating at all hahah. Hope that helps!


Entire-Document

What do you play against 1. … e5


lichess_is_better

Najdorf


1v1Strategy

Instead of playing 2. BF4 play 2.C4


rolltideandstuff

Mvl plays one opening against e4 as black. Seems to be doing pretty well


flatmeditation

You disgust me


SundayAMFN

This has got to be a shitpost


lichess_is_better

You can check my lichess account


ichkannwutang

\[Cue a horde of 1400s telling a 2300 what's best.\]


Tykuo

Do you even have fun


ReadingNo8554

Quite same for me, I am 2200 and i literally play advance scholars mate to win with white, even against 2400-2500ish level players, it works but i dont much know what to play if the person plays scilian defense or anything else than e5 Whit black i never play e5 because everyone has prep against it,


Entire-Document

Try learning relatively simple openings like rut Lopez, scotch, QG, KG etc


Opposite-Cranberry80

Steady on, King. If it aint broke, don’t fix it


Alpra_Creem

But what do you do when you play as black for an opening?


lichess_is_better

Najdorf


Eobardthawne89

Do you teach chess?


lichess_is_better

Yeah, I coached most of my friends and also I help people in the university chess club


Eobardthawne89

How much is coaching?


lichess_is_better

Money? I don't get money because I only teach my friends and I'm not sure if I am a good enough coach to pay money...


Eobardthawne89

I’m sure you are stronger than me if you teaching people at universities. What’s your rating? I’ll pay you 20 dollars an hour.


lichess_is_better

My rapid rating peak was 2410 and blitz rating peak was 2300 lichess. I haven't participated in rated otb tournaments since 2011 so my irl rating is not that high. I would really want to coach you since I need money nowadays. I have a good understanding of the middle game and I'm decent in endgame but I can't teach you much in means of opening. I'm sure there are better candidates for you for coaching but if you insist, I would really want to try it.


Eobardthawne89

Yes let’s try please !


Eobardthawne89

Lichess my username is Zoom89