[Rapoport] Browns QB Baker Mayfield is expected to need surgery on his torn labrum following the season, sources say, the result of the hits he’s taken on his non-throwing shoulder. The belief is he can deal with it through the season, but incurring more damage would make it challenging.

[Rapoport] Browns QB Baker Mayfield is expected to need surgery on his torn labrum following the season, sources say, the result of the hits he’s taken on his non-throwing shoulder. The belief is he can deal with it through the season, but incurring more damage would make it challenging.


I dunno if I'd be putting my presumed long-term QB on the field until he was fully healed up. I know the Browns were expecting big things this season, but I'd be worried about this turning into a Cam Newton or Chad Pennington situation.


I was thinking RGIII


Ah yes, I remember the RG3 era in Cleveland. It last literally like a quarter and half, until he got hurt on opening day.


Holy shit what a quarter and a half tho


Hey now, we would have went 0-16 two years straight had RG3 not got us that win against the Chargers


Show some respect for the only Browns QB to win a game between December 2015 and September 2018!


There was legit memes where RGIII is placed on IR walking into the First energy


Or Andrew Luck. A torn labrum was one of his many and the Colts were certainly not overly cautious with him, to their detriment.




Baker isn't left handed. Why is everyone in here talking about guys that hurt their actual throwing shoulders?


Non throwing shoulder injuries can actually affect your throwing motion and play. Josh Allen had a non throwing shoulder sprain last year and had average/not great 3 games until it healed up. Couple of the talking head retired QBs went into detail on how it can mess up your mechanics. I think these guys are saying it could potentially, permanently alter his mechanics if it gets worse.


Right. People can sit here and say "Ahh, it's just pain. It doesn't mess with his throwing arm." Well yes, it does. 1. You're not going to do your job well if you're in a lot of pain after a 325 pound human running at 15 MPH just hit you in your damaged shoulder. He has 11 more games of pain to get through. The cortisone shots can only do so much for so long. and 2. Mentally, he's probably going to be thinking about that shoulder all season which leads to the body sub-consciously doing things to protect the shoulder. Maybe he becomes more skittish in the pocket. Maybe he rushes throws. Maybe he doesn't step all the way into the pass because he needs to use his left arm to set it up, etc. The "it's only pain" commenters really can't put themselves in his shoes. Like I said, there's not 3-4 games left. He has 11 if you include tonight. They're asking A LOT from him as he plays the most violent contact sport where he's being driven by freaks of nature into a ever so hardening ground as it gets colder. The longer he plays with this, the shorter his career is going to be with the scar tissue and arthritis that's going to bother him when he hits his mid-30's


Because blindside pass rushers will be hitting him on his left shoulder.


The reason a torn labrum is bad for a QB is because it affects their ability to throw, not because it affects their ability to take a hit. Since it's his non-throwing shoulder, it's far less important than it was for those guys.


He injured it by being driven into the turf. I get that it's not his throwing shoulder, but it's a common hit QBs take.


Actually the original injury was him trying to tackle.


Are you talking about Baker? Because he didn't injure it being driven into the turf, he injured it trying to make a tackle


When you limp, how much harder does your other leg have to work? Same with a shoulder, even if that’s not as obvious.


Different shoulders. But yeah if it's affecting him now then it's affecting him. It doesn't matter which shoulder it is, really. Who wants a QB nursing injuries his whole career?


The Browns have their guy with Baker and it seems like such a weird risk to keep playing him like this when he's hurt and already missing time due to it on top of taking further hits are likely to increase the damage. I get he's on the last year of his contract but the downsides feel like they massively out weigh the upsides. So glad I don't have to gamble with my body like this for my job.


His last year is actually next year (2018 was his first year, 1st round pick).


So then even more of a reason to get the surgery now, get all the recovery time he needs, and be ready to hit the ground running next season.


Shoot if we did it call cam and bring him in the building. He’s obviously nothing special anymore but with the weapons and ground game we have I wouldn’t be shocked if we managed to find our spot as the 7th wildcard team.


> ground game Aren't Chubb and Hunt also hurt?


AP is a free agent.


As is Marshawn Lynch


>on top of taking further hits are likely to increase the damage. Yeah I was in support of him playing up until last week when he took that nasty fall on it, and I realized just how quickly bad can become worse. Although I had high hopes this season, I think he should shut it down and get surgery now and be ready to earn a new contract starting week 1 next year.


Completely agree. Plus healthy Keenum is probably as good if not better than Baker in his current injured state.


In regards to Cam, with Cleveland’s running game would bringing in Cam be a decent solution that allows Baker to have immediate surgery?


No, I'd rather roll with Keenum than Cam


Right on. I’m not familiar enough to know.


Not OP, but Keenum has a long history of being in an offensive system with Stefanski. Sure Keenum is a career backup realistically, but his knowledge of the coach/system are a huge advantage imo.


Nice. I’m always cheering for you guys. Have been since the move.


He’s the Drew Stanton for Stefanski. Arians kept Stanton around as a backup for a long time because he knew the offense and how it worked


Funnily enough, Drew Stanton was the Drew Stanton for Freddie Kitchens, which makes sense because he's an Arians disciple


Tbh if we're bringing in a vet to Duke it out I'd rather bring in Foles. That's really his time to shine lol.


Cam is done.


If the Browns are convinced that Baker is their franchise qb they would shut him down right?


Browns are entering into the meat of their AFCN schedule. I could see a lot hinging on how those first two with Pitt and Cincy go.


Sounds weird, but if Cincy beats the Ravens this weekend I think Cleveland’s season is on the outs and they should shut down Baker. The AFC North is too competitive and that’s a long term risk. But, I wouldn’t play Baker tonight either. No one wants to see The QB List Jersey make a comeback...


Pretty sure Baker is officially out tonight. Can't remember where I read that, but I read that somewhere.


I bet they will get a clearer answer after tonights game.


Yep. This game tonight will probably determine if Baker goes on IR. Case doesn't need to blow the doors off tonight either. I expect some struggles but a win nonetheles.


I have confidence in Case but he has a real lack of weapons at his disposal today. I'd feel alot better if he at least had Chubb or Hunt or Landry as release valves.


Landry’s back baybeeeee


Landry just got cleared to play, we got our first down finder.


Maybe, they could think Baker at 60-70% is better than Kase at 100%.


So the answer is to risk further damage to Mayfield's injury ?


That must be what they are thinking. Makes no sense to me, I would think they would want a healthy QB1 going forward


I'd be very surprised if the team wasn't telling him to back off, but he keeps insisting he should play. The whole second opinion thing is probably him hunting for more evidence to convince the team to let him play.


Probably, but at some point the team has to be the adult in the room. The Ravens wouldn’t have Lamar in this situation, there would be some behind close doors agreement/ assurance of a contract or whatever Baker is playing for.


If it was his throwing shoulder I'm sure they'd be much more cautious about it.


I wouldn’t be surprised if he does get shut down anyway, I’ll assume he’ll be checking with doctors a lot more to make sure if it’s good for him to play at all per week, kinda like what he did preparing for today


Baker at 60/70% is skirting on moving to "Baker Mayfield IR territory though"


As someone said the other day, they’re going through injury he’ll right now. If they hold on and win 2 of the next 3 then they still believe in the season and Baker gives them a better chance. If they drop 2, then they may rack this up as a lost season, shut Baker down, get him the surgery and have him done with rehab before training camp. He’s going to be tentative about this as he doesn’t have a long term deal, so they may do something at a lower AAV (30-35) but more guaranteed (100-120).


Baker the type of dude who would debate how much he actually needs the shoulder to ensure that he can continue playing


He needs to have the surgery now, he's their long term QB


Surgery now protects him from himself. You’re right


It's idiotic for him to take another snap this year without first signing a contract extension.


Glad you said it because, coming from a ravens fan, I might come across as biased. The kids too talented and too damned good to ruin his career over 1 season though. Hope he gets back to %100.


The fact that it’s a contract year for him might make that a little trickier


It’s technically not. Next year is his 5th year option year which is already picked up I will say it’s fairly abnormal for a QB to not have an extension entering their option year though


He’s in that purgatory of being good to really good but not so good that it’s a no brainer to hand him a massive deal


I agree, he should take off this week to debate that at least /s


"Was I happy with the shoulder? No! We don't score points. That's the dumbest question you could ask! What? Jesus, Tony."


100% he would do that.




Guaranteed he's at least duct taped the entire left arm across his body and tried to practice one-armed


Shouldve used Flex Seal


"Baker it's just a sprain."


And its exactly why the choice shouldn't be his. The best thing the Browns should do for the future of their franchise is tell his ass to get the surgery and live with the consequences this year


I’ve got a feeling that’s ultimately what’s going to happen if we keep dropping games here and fall out of contention.


He'd probably chop off that arm if needed to


"You probably didn't recognize me because of my red arm." *points at bloody meat stump where his arm used to be*


‘‘Tis only a flesh wound!


Next game he's gonna come out like Robocop


I guess they could technically remove it. Supposedly a goalkeeper, in a soccer world cup, asked for a broken finger? Toe? To be removed so he could play the final. Hardcore.


“I saw this movie where this guy had a metal arm, used it to fight aliens and stuff…can we look into that?”


Does Progressive have health insurance?


idk but Hulu has live sports.


Hulu has live sports?


Hulu has live sports.


Hulu has live sports.


He should have gotten the bag from Aflac


Instead he secured the biggie bag from wendys.


So as long as he doesn't get hit playing QB for the rest of the season he's okay? Sounds reasonable.


We just have to build a wall....around him that is


Kirk was a forward thinker all along.


Only have to worry about the Steelers and Ravens pass rush - er, maybe early surgery isn’t such a bad idea…


Your OLine was a wall. Now they are decimated by injuries


We have an aging Tretter at Center (barely practices anymore), Wyatt isn’t looking like himself, Jed’s got his ankle amputated, Jack is also dead, and Joel is still a War Daddy but he’s aging. I’m totally fine though.


He could become more of a runner so that it’s ok for him to get hit in the head. Then he won’t get hit on the shoulder as much.


I get that he's competitive, but this just seems reckless. Why would you not just shut him down for the season? I don't see the risk being worth it for him.


I think the sample size we've seen this year could work against him at contract time. He may feel like he needs to prove his worth. And if they shut him down and then make him an offer he isn't too keen on, then the team needs to find a new QB.


He literally helped the browns last season reach the playoffs since 2002. TWO DECADES. And his play last season was great for browns standards. He has good sample size for contract time.


You know upper management are going to compare him to his other co workers around his age ala Lamar, Mahomes, and Allen.


If I were him, I’d compare myself to every trash QB before and tell them they can make the choice. Someone is gonna pay him regardless.


I don’t think that really hurts him that much. Baker has flashes of great play. He’s inconsistent, but so are the three you mentioned. Granted, the other three are more consistent with flashes of greatness, but still, Baker should be fine with that comparison. He’s still way better than Darnold or Rosen (lol)


The irony is that his inconsistent flashes of great play making ability has been the most consistent flashes of great play making ability the browns have had at qb in decades.


He’s under contract next year too. He’s not likely to sign an extension before 2022 unless he’s willing to take less.


That's a good point. But the NFL is a 'what have you done for me lately' league. And I'm not even the one that started the "should he get paid" talk. It's been a question since the beginning of the season by everyone outside of the Browns fanbase. I don't think it's a question of if the Browns keep him, I think it's how much should he get paid. I think unless they're willing to trade for a better QB, they'd be fools to try to move on and draft another one at this point. Their window is short and they have almost enough talent to make a run. They're gonna need other talent to make up for Mayfield's shortcomings, though, so they'll need to leave some cap space after they pay him.


His biggest struggles this year directly relate to his arm injury. I could see a gm using that against a player but it would be idiotic. That’d send the message that your players should put themselves ahead of the organization, when dealing with injuries. Which isn’t really what organizations want players to do.


Seems to me it’s in his and the team’s best interest to take a discount on a shorter-term contract, and see where he’s at in 2 more years or something. If he demands a ton of money, I could see the Browns cutting him loose, and if they do pay him, they’ll have to sacrifice the surrounding talent he needs to be successful with his skill set. If he takes a discount, he team can stack talent around him, and if he has post-season success, he’ll be in a stronger position to negotiate next time around.


He also has the entirety of next year to play into a big contract. This seems reckless


I'm tired of pretending "tough it out through an obvious injury that needs longer-term attention" is something that should be lauded instead of criticized.


Having torn both my labrums and having had both repaired, having it torn in your non-dominant arm is really nothing more than a pain tolerance issue unless it fundamentally alters something critical you do physically. Eventually it will get painful enough that you need to get it fixed, but it's not immediate. As long as he can tolerate the pain, he's not really at risk for any further damage because of it.


>he's not really at risk for any further damage because of it. I mean, if he plans to play he definitely risks further damage from being tackled, sacked, etc


Maybe I worded that poorly. The damage he risks by playing hurt isn't of major significance. If the labrum completely tears....okay. Sucks, will make post-surgery recovery more difficult, but won't fundamentally alter him as a football player. If this was his throwing shoulder it would be the opposite, and it would be of critical importance to shut him down rather than risk further damage.


I dunno man I think that's underestimating the complicated mechanical device that is the human body. When you throw you're using your non-dominant arm and shoulder (along with your torso, hips, down into your feet) to help torque your body into the throw. [Watch some slowmotion MLB pitching and pay attention to their nondominant arm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0GZV6Y0rFA) and you can definitely see how important it is to the throwing mechanics.


I mean, I'm telling you based off of personal experience and what my surgeon told me while going through the process. I played four months of baseball with my non-dominant labrum torn. It's literally a pain tolerance issue. Totally different case if it was his throwing arm though. Beyond all that, if the Browns medical team disagreed with any of that, I would imagine the option to play wouldn't be on the table at all.


This is not true. You can further damage your labrum. And also, there will be significant instability.


I think part of it is that the Browns aren't 100% sure about how much to commit to Mayfield, and are also intrigued about the Rodgers sweepstakes next offseason. Shutting Baker down muddies these waters. Additionally, Baker himself is playing for that contract and knows if he shuts down the season he's not going to be paid as much.


Especially when he has TJ Watt coming up who's bound the get a few good hits in on him. Maybe they still shut his season down before that game, but that's a huge risk for a franchise QB.


Please for the love of god just shut him down. Baker is the best QB they’ve had in DECADES. Don’t Fucking ruin him.


Damn that sucks. Rivalry aside I really like Baker. Also, he’s a great actor


I absolutely love his commercials. He executes them so well.


I can't think of a more charismatic player that's frequently in commercials, it's clear why he gets so many ad gigs.


It’s funny comparing his to Dak’s because Dak is so buttoned up lol


I love Dak but you nailed it. He's so buttoned up and corporate. I wish he let his personality show a little more, although I get why he doesn't.


Blake griffin was amazing during his prime years


[I’d like to see Baker do something similar to this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu7zNj_wkwk)


[my fav Blake commercial](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q1xF8Alvv7o)


What the actual fuck lmao


Peyton is pretty good but his commercials didn't seem to actually require any acting skills


Have you seen his [United Way](https://youtu.be/uEEYbXVCoT0) commercial?


Thank you so much


"[CUT THAT MEAT!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FlwJwL6kdo)"


*Chicken Parm you taste so good*


Hut Hut Pizza Hut




3/4 of our conference have awesome, loveable QBs.


You rape a couple women and are a general shitbag and now you're considered unlikeable? Cancel culture has really gotten out of hand!


Hey, josh dobbs is lovable too…we don’t talk about our other three qbs though.


And then there’s their father.


I see him as more of an Uncle Rico type Edit: “How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?” *Throws another dump off to Najee*


Captain Fat Fuck, Father of Men.


He may not be a top 5 QB, but he’s a top 5 NFL actor of all time and I’ll die on that hill.


Hall Of Farmers, dum duhdum dum dumdumdum.


You have what Rodgers? Mayfield? Mahomes? Jim Brown? Polamalu? OJ?


OJ has to be #1


In my fantasies Baker is so confident in his post football acting career he takes like a $30 mil per year contract and then goes on to have MVP season. Also Alexandra Daddario is my wife but doubt y'all want to hear about those fantasies haha.


Ah, Alexandra. That reminds me of my favorite subreddit.


> Also Alexandra Daddario is my wife but doubt y'all want to hear about those fantasies haha. Similar, but it's Ana De Armas for me. I may have seen No Time to Die over the weekend.


His commercials are amazing


Personally have always disliked Baker ever since he planted the flag at Ohio State, along with his other antics.. but i also worry about his long term health. That arm is nearly destroyed. It really isn't his fault (tho they need to teach him how to safely tackle as a QB). IMO they need to give him a fair contract to show faith and shut him down. I think Keenum gives them a fair chance to win the next 2 games, but with the Ravens and Bengals playing at the level they are, i can't see a banged up Baker beating either team once. ESPECIALLY with his injured the rest of the team is! Golly i can't help feeling bad for our rivals like this. Never seen so many stars get injured like this


Well, considering Carson Wentz was able to pick our secondary apart on 2 sprained ankles (the most you can have at one time) but we shut down Herbert. I'd imagine the worse Baker plays the better the chance he'll have against us.


> (the most you can have at one time) I got a solid laugh out of the emphasis on this, thank you 😂 Honestly, given Wentz's injury history I wouldn't put it past him to be the first guy in NFL history to find a way to sprain a third ankle.


Carson "3 legged" Wentz with the sprained dick


Yeah, I said it once and it got a big laugh, so I've just been running it into the ground lol.


I'm probably underestimating sports medicine tbh. Idk how Wentz did that with 2 ankle sprains. Poor Andrew Luck played a few years too early i guess 😭


Bruh, right? When I sprained one ankle in high-school I was on crutches and then in a boot for a good while. I have no fuckin idea how someone can play football, any position, with 2 sprained ankles.


Drugs Drugs and more Drugs! 😂




I agree that it’s going to get worse, etc. but to be fair it’s not like it keeps unexpectedly happening during simple tasks. Dudes been out there making tackles and running around the field like he’s healthy with nothing to lose.


Didn't he say his shoulder popped out on a play, no contact against AZ?


Yep. I have a similar issue and I’ve woken up in the middle of the night because my shoulder popped out in my sleep. The more you do it, the easier it is to pop out.


Its in his non throwing shoulder, it'll only be an issue if he keeps trying to play deep safety on his picks


Man I feel for browns fan. When healthy Team looked really good.


Seems insane to try to navigate an injury this severe week to week for 10 games.


Mitch Trubisky played 10 or 11 games in 2019 with a partially torn labrum in his non-throwing shoulder. He wore a brace to limit the range of motion in that shoulder. I recall the public comments to basically be that it was a pain management situation.


It does. Though I'm not a doctor


Dude should just get the surgery and move on. He's always trying to be Superman and it's bad for him and the team


Should they consider sitting him for the season? I don't know a lot about labrum injuries but I think he's their franchise QB, and imo it's not worth the risk. If he permanently injures it he could never be the same.


For his sake, he should get the surgery now. Bit, i also understand his competitive side would rather chop off his non throwing arm then sit out of the season any further.


My brother had the same injury during his senior year. Tried to play through it but his shoulder just kept dislocating and making it worse. He tried to play in college after surgery but then it literally still kept dislocating/tearing and now he is retired. Not an injury to take lightly


was it on his throwing arm or other arm?


That’s what makes this oddly relatable, it was his non throwing arm and he played QB. Granted he switched to defense in college which definitely made him more vulnerable to re-injury.


interesting, so it seems medically there’s no reason for him to push through it. it’s just his upcoming contract is the primary factor


I’m unreasonably depressed


I’ve had a torn Labrum twice, the first time it was a complete tear… the more hits he takes on that shoulder and the more it dislocates, the worse it’ll be in the future 🤷🏼‍♂️


Either shut him down until the playoffs, if we make it (unlikely) or shut him down for the year, especially if we're committing to him long term which we damn well better be


Shut him down ..like yesterday. 1st QB that's more then halfway decent in over two decades and you wanna jeopardize his future for one season that's likely gonna be a bloodbath in the divison?!? But it is the browns were talking about here. Will likely have him return and drop back for 50+ passes a game...sigh...


I’ve been saying this since before the season. The AFCN may send 3, even all 4 teams to the playoffs, but the odds that any team even reaches the Super Bowl is reduced because we’re going to demolish each other - as is tradition. For the Browns, do they really want to trot Baker out and AFCN D-Lines getting after him? If their line doesn’t sure up that’s a death sentence.


Exactly. Many are counting the Steelers out, but if there is one thing I know about watching them closely for 20+ years and living in western PA for 7years...they are always in the thick of things.


As a Steeler fan myself, I can’t help but agree. I don’t love our chances anymore as much as I did before the season, but even if we’re on the outside looking in Tomlin treats AFCN matchups seriously and our pass rush is not going to treat Baker with much sympathy. The last thing they should want is TJ Watt or Calais Campbell sending their QB carousel back to the shadow realm.


Cam Newton szn?


u/loves2spoogeguys szn. Imma be taking shots all game. I got my headband on, I got my Goofie Goober jockstrap ready. I just need a shot Mr.Coach Stefanski


Cam's was his throwing shoulder, Baker's isn't. Big difference in the two.


He’s talking about browns signing cam THIS season


Ah. Doubt it'll happen. Case Keenum is a solid backup with plenty of experience and moderate success with Stefanski.


We'll see how tonight goes and then meet back here tomorrow to continue this discussion.


Still, the precedent for having an already injured franchise QB go play TJ Watt seems bad.


[Check this shit out.](https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings) Ben and Baker are going to combine for like 15 sacks in a couple of weeks.


As someone who’s dislocated their shoulders (yes both) many times. It get to the point where the joint is so week that he’ll make a throw and just by moving his body a certain way his arm will pop out, and it hurts every single time. He should really just get shut down for the season.


Cam probably can’t/won’t beat out Keenum for the starting job, and he won’t want to sit on the bench so I doubt he goes there.


Keenum is way better imo


There are 11 games left in the season. That equals roughly 30 sacks. I don't like his chances.


Someone has to protect baker from himself he’s going to get hurt worse.


Just get the surgery now and be completely healthy by next year because he will for sure incur more damage


I get that it’s his non throwing shoulder but at some point you have to save players from themselves. He hasn’t even signed an extension to be risking himself like this.


Case keenum leads the browns to the afc championship game after miracle last second TD over the chiefs


Look what's happened to Ben man. Get the surgery


Baker needs to shut himself down…he’s got a contract due. Dude needs to think about himself here.


Do the surgery now, gives him extra time to heal and get back into top shape before next season. To risk long term for this season is silly unless the season was going very well.


This is the real moment when we find out if the Browns still is the Browns. Anything less than shutting him down and letting him get healthy is IMO, a collossal mismanagement from their F.O. It would be a real shame if they ruined him over this.


I can't imagine the pain of playing with a bum shoulder in the NFL...


Baker about to Pennington himself if he isn’t too careful


Case keenum being asked to fill in for a otherwise strong team after their QB was injured for an entire season... Nah can't imagine he'll be good, he won't even win a playoff game lmao.