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More than 350 Indonesian healthcare workers vaccinated with China's Sinovac vaccine got COVID-19 and dozens are hospitalized, raising questions about the vaccine's efficacy on variants

More than 350 Indonesian healthcare workers vaccinated with China's Sinovac vaccine got COVID-19 and dozens are hospitalized, raising questions about the vaccine's efficacy on variants

Eltharion-the-Grim

From the article: >Out of 5,000 vaccinated healthcare workers, 350 got infected. That is 7%. This is as effective as other vaccines. Also, this article is specifically about the Delta variant, which is MORE infectious. Even with the Delta variant, it's way too early to "raise questions about sinovac's efficacy". 7% of workers have been infected. This could go to 15% or 25% and still be within the range of what we know about Sinovac; this would still be considered effective.


AeroRandie

Indonesia already released a statement clarifying the western media reports. >Most of the 308 health workers vaccinated with Sinovac's Coronavac vaccine in Kudus, East Java, a district recently hit hard by the novel coronavirus Delta variant, recovered from the disease last week, an encouraging indication of how the Chinese-made vaccine fare against the more infectious variant. https://jakartaglobe.id/news/sinovac-vaccine-protects-health-workers-from-severe-covid19-in-deltahit-kudus


Wedonthavetobedicks

Yeah, this seems to be a trend across the vaccines: even if you still contract a variant of Covid-19 after vaccination, the risks of serious complications are *dramatically* reduced.


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OhioMegi

I don’t know why people can’t seem to understand this. No vaccine is 100%. They are to hopefully prevent a person from getting covid and if they do (small chance, but can happen), they will most likely not have a severe case or die.


ethertrace

I think it's because with most of the other things we get vaccinated for these days we've also (ignoring anti-vaxxer pockets) achieved herd immunity against. So up until now, "vaccination" for the general public is functionally synonymous with "never have to deal with this disease in my life." That's not medically accurate, of course, but not understanding how vaccinations work is part of why we're having such an issue with the rise of anti-vaxxer misinformation. They're very confident in their ignorance.


quackduck45

also the term "immunity" in a medical setting doesn't mean what people normally associate the word immune to mean.


Young_Man_Jenkins

It seems extremely common to incorrectly assume the vaccine prevents the virus from infecting your body at all, rather than speeding up your immune response to fight it off before it gets out of control.


FierySoldier123

Mhm. The first time you get exposed to a pathogen, it takes time for the adaptive immune response to do it’s thing ( T and B cell activation, clonal expansion and differentiation). What a vaccine does is simulate the first infection, so that when you get infected with the real pathogen there are already memory T and B cells that rapidly proliferate to give a faster and stronger immune response. So it ain’t protecting from the virus entering your body but from it proliferating in your body and as a side effect killing your cells in the process.


Young_Man_Jenkins

Exactly. But it seems like a lot of people hear "immune" and think that means there can't be any virus in your body. As a result when there is a covid case in a vaccinated individual they believe the vaccine is ineffective, rather than realizing that it prevented a more serious case by triggering an immune response when there was exponentially less virus to contend with.


FierySoldier123

We really need better vaccine education around the world, that vaccines don’t prevent infection but rather prevent severe disease. (Except for some vaccines like the dengue vaccine which can cause antibody-enhanced infection)


OhioMegi

Very true. This is something very new.


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lmvg

I've never seen someone said that. What is true is that they are almost as effective preventing hospitalization and deaths according to real world data. Pfizer and Moderns vaccines are really incredible because they prevent asymptomatic infection too. In general all vaccines approved by the WHO are good so we need to acknowledge that.


ExcellingAtExcel

> I've never seen someone said that. Lucky you.


Mick_86

Yeah, and they're back if the first few responses on this thread are anything to go by.


Young_Djinn

Bullshit. Not even Chinese citizens think the Sinovac is better than western mRNA vaccines


omniuni

IIRC it was claimed to be something like 81% or so? For one of the earliest vaccines, especially developed prior to any of the later variants, that's fairly reasonable. Not amazing, but reasonable.


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Orangecuppa

Not in this case. This is harmful because not everyone will have access to the 'western' vaccines. If sinovac is all you got, you are still highly encouraged to take it because it's better than nothing. All these does is make people NOT want to get that protection which causes lives.


Bebebaubles

Also this is Indonesia, it’s difficult for poorer countries to store huge amounts of vaccines at -20 or -70 Celsius when you can store the Chinese one in a regular fridge.


ChownaTime

Yes because people only bash genocidal authoritarian governments because it's "en vogue". Imagine being this out of touch.


juanconj_

This has nothing to do with that tho. The Sinovac vaccine is being used across the world, whatever criticism we can have towards the Chinese government won't change that fact. Making up stories about the vaccine has nothing to do with the atrocities committed by tye Chinese government.


InfntVision

Should I get a vaccine created by a nation that infiltrated and created coups in my country, that has children locked up in its borders and bombs any country that has oil ...China Is that much worst?!


d_a_f_u_n_k_

“America is bad so China can’t be much worse!” Literal whataboutism. China is immune to criticism because another country has done bad things as well?


Melange2

Write anything about China and you can be 100% sure that most responses trying to refute you will be about how much worse USA is. The worst thing is that it's such a non-response and what they're basically saying is that "since USA are so bad, the CCP should be allowed to be asholes aswell".


Stormeve

Funniest thing is when they bring up the US as if they assume it’s a valid retort against what you’re saying about China. I was born in the Philippines so whenever people bring up about how the US has done this or that, I roll my eyes and say, “How does that change what China themselves has done?” These tankies forget that a good number of their favorite communist-turned authoritarian capitalism dictatorship has plenty of Asian neighbors that do not like them. It isn’t only Americans or Westerners in general shitting on them.


DemocratShill

It's not whataboutism, it's on point. If you're arguing being skeptical of China due to government actions instead of the vaccine itself, then it's fair to ask the very same question about other countries. Whataboutism is 99% used to deflect criticism.


Jacc3

Other things aside, as you seem to be Chilean I assume you are referring to Pfizer/BioNTech. While Pfizer is American and is the company that ran the trials and does most of the production, the actual vaccine was developed by German BioNTech (which also produces significant amounts themselves). So no, that vaccine is not created by the USA, but rather a German company. And yeah, USA having done many shitty things doesn't mean China can't be even worse.


InfntVision

Intra Hospitalary infections have droped dramaticly here, so has the admission of elders (that were vaccinated first) to the ICUs.... And More than 90% were Sinovac. 95% of icu admissions are unvaccinated people. Raising doubts about a vaccine because of the country it was originated is idiotic, and can be done with China, USA or Germany... That's my point, that it can be said both ways and it's usually BS. (Even worse than the only country to have drop an atomic bomb? come on man)


Jacc3

> (Even worse than the only country to have drop an atomic bomb? come on man) To be fair, I think Nazi Germany, Soviet, China and Japan all would've dropped atomic bombs during ww2 if they only had access to them


Namika

This is the geopolitical equivalent of "Who cares if I rape people every week, people get *KILLED* in Chicago, so get off my case and ignore my rapes."


Fakewokers

No it's more like murderous white man accuses a non-white he doesn't like of a crime and gets his friends and family to help him lynch the non-white. Non-white victim tries to point out the murderer but that's whataboutism. Family and friends be like: "that's whataboutism, two wrongs don't make a right now shut up while we lynch you and let the other murderer walk free"


InfntVision

What....?! children get molested on my migrant child cages at my border every day...it also happened on guantamo for decades (with prisoners)...your beloved country is the only one that has dropped an atomic bomb, how the fuck are you the good trustworthy guy here?...in what movie? Avengers School Shooting? I'm not defending China, I just don't buy 'merican propaganda either, that's all.


omid_

How does the US government relate to any of this? Why do you think people bash the US govt? Not sure why you would bring them up.


ChownaTime

You tell me, you're literally the only one talking about the US government.


omid_

>genocidal authoritarian governments this describes the USA, which is why I'm confused as to why he brought them up.


d_a_f_u_n_k_

Whataboutism


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4sater

r/china is as anti-Chinese as it gets, lmao.


Bebebaubles

I’m so tired of this China bashing. I once went along with it but I woke up slowly since then and I hope people realize the west also has their own $$propaganda just like China does. All I see is how everything they make is horrible even though they escaped levels of ridiculous poverty at unprecedented rate. 100 million lifted from poverty! The news are never going to talk about the high speed rail that spans the huge country, maglev from Beijing to Shanghai is 4.5 hours or their vaccination doses has hit 1 billion mark today on the front page. Then everyone is surprised that it’s popular to beat up Asian elderly like these exaggerated or fake news doesn’t have anything to do with it.


boyi

Sadly this bashing won't go away. It's an effective geopolitics tool. It's NOT the first time though. China was bashed for it poor human rights when it wanted to join the WTO in the late 90's. The US and the gang were afraid of a new market power joining the club. Now, the threat is more real. China Market capitalization is just slightly below the US. The US doesn't just want to stay no.1 but the threat to being ejected to No. 2 is becoming more and more likely. So, in the name of national interest, we will see more and more bashing against China (however right or wrong) so that the US can remain at the top. Edit: add 'NOT'


d_a_f_u_n_k_

Yea seriously, Germany bashing is so en Vogue right now. People don’t realize we have our own $$propaganda in the west. That Adolf fellow turned a country around, from hyperinflation to stability, took their workers from 30% unemployment down to 4%, nobody in the west talks about their highly efficient public transportation. All I see is how everything they do is horrible even though they escaped levels of ridiculous unemployment and inflation. (This is how you people sound defending a country committing ethnic genocide) “But oh wait capitalism worked out for China so they’re exonerated for genocide”


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mattchew1993

The attitude, at least where I am, has turned from reducing hospitalizations to COVID-zero which concerns me. Like, COVID will always exist but as long as vaccines make it no more threatening than a normal flu who cares?


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Tell me you’re from Ontario Canada, without actually telling me.


AbortionFixsMistakes

Also, the flu still kills people


mattchew1993

Right but we also don't lock things down or wear masks everywhere because of the flu.


Head_Captain

It’s usually the unvaccinated that die of flu, and the manufactures of the flu vaccine admit it does NOT cover all the flu strains every year. They do an educational guess on what strains to put in the flu shot. They aren’t always right.


thatguyontheleft

Well, the word "most" bothers me. Article says: > Sinovac vaccine was estimated to be 98% effective at preventing death Isn't that about the standard mortality rate for Covid without vaccination?


Urik88

That's on top of the COVID mortality rate. It means during trials the control group was 98% more likely to die of covid compared to the vaccinated group. See here: https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-explained.html


Bongchovie

Isn’t it 5000% more likely?


laasta

He did the math.


Bongchovie

Did they? Isn’t it the case that of 100 people that die without vaccine only 2 die with vaccine making it 50x or 5000% more likely to die of covid without vaccine?


Melange2

He was referring to you. You did the math :)


leixiaotie

Both are correct. 100 to 2 is 98% reduction. 2 to 100 is 5000% increase.


ComradeH_VIE

That is on top of "normal" death rate. So far, let's say 1 infected case will die among 100 cases (a tad high, but bear with me). The Chinese vaccine has "98% effective at preventing death" means that of the said to-be-dead has been vaccinated, he/She will have a 98% chance to live.


green_flash

That is consistent with reports from other places affected by the Delta variant that use different vaccines, e.g. Singapore: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/ttsh-cluster-9-fully-vaccinated-cases-had-mild-to-no-symptoms > Ministry of Health director of medical services Kenneth Mak said that of the 40 Covid-19 cases in the Tan Tock Seng Hospital (TTSH) cluster, the nine who had received full doses of the Covid-19 vaccines were either asymptomatic or exhibited mild symptoms, and none required oxygen support. The vaccines work. There are differences in effectiveness, but all of them are key to bringing the pandemic under control.


Lycantree

Yes, i think that is the whole point NOW. If the vaccine at least prevent you from needing hospitalization and dieing it should be used


nonosam9

But it is still relevant and important news that people fully vaccinated are getting the Delta variant. **It is really important to talk about this**. Because this means fully vaccinated people can be carriers, and can give it to children and other vulnerable people who cannot get the vaccine yet. Will the vaccines reduce how contagious the carriers are? Yes. ^^^_ We need to study and understand all of this, and all of it is new because the Delta variant is relatively new. We get it: the vaccines protect against and reduce the harm of Delta. But we need clear information on the likelihood of being infected with variants when fully vaccinated. It has critical policy implications, and full understanding will lead to policies that save lives. If the Delta variant is rampant in a place like the US, is it still critical to protect children by having fully vaccinated people wear masks and try to reduce their chance of getting and spreading Delta? As important as it is, we need to move beyond this fact: everyone should be fully vaccinated, and being fully vaccinated protects you from the Delta variant.


PunishedPixel

Very true but Singapore uses Moderna and Pfizer vaccines only. Sinovac is only available for people who have serious allergies who can’t be vaccinated with the mRNA vaccine.


PrAyTeLLa

>That is consistent with reports from other places affected by the Delta variant that use different vaccines


spinkycow

Interesting to read this news report from the actual country after the news report from America this morning. I received a Chinese vaccine and I’m really thankful that they donated to my country or else it could have been months or even years of waiting for another vaccine to become available.


JagmeetSingh2

Damn recently I’ve noticed it’s always the delta variant in the news causing new cases and usually it’s with people who were already vaccinated


NatoStop

Is it really? I can’t find any good information on the delta variant other than quick little articles about how it’s troubling. Can you link me some good articles so I don’t get too careless with the ease of restrictions?


LinShenLong

Of course the article has a shady misleading headline in the original post...


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LordeIsFramingMe

I half agree with you there. A lot of times, I'll blame it on the journalists but to be fair, a lot of people are also guilty of simply reading headlines or getting their news from social media without reading the entire articles and being objective about all of it. I've had to clarify a lot of stuff about the pandemic to different friends over the last year and most times, they were misinformed simply because they didn't bother reading beyond the headline. I'm not saying it's exactly the same case with this news article though. Journalists and news outlets are definitely very guilty of creating panic and baiting often times.


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koechink

This. My dad received sinovac and got covid last week. He was unwell for two days, and recovered like nothing happened.


Dozed12

Remember guys, China and Russia are the biggest proponents of misinformation about vaccines /s


dzpliu

You are too


earthlingkevin

What did he misinform us about?


Trekkie0802

My great-uncle got 2 Sinovac shots and caught COVID about a month after his second dose. However, we still consider the vaccine as effective. Why? Because he’s 74 years old, a diabetic, and very hypertensive. Yet he’s completely asymptomatic, only found out he caught COVID when he was randomly selected for a swab test, and is expected to make a full recovery without needing any medical care. If not for the vaccine, he most likely would’ve been dead by now or fighting for his life in the ICU. Thanks to the vaccine, what could've been a death sentence is now nothing more than a minor inconvenience.


4sater

>Because he’s 74 years old, a diabetic, and very hypertensive. Yet he’s completely asymptotic Damn, that's like the whole package. Glad your uncle did not have any complications!


Bebebaubles

I’m glad he’s safe! China’s vaccine works by using killed viral particles to expose the body's immune system to the virus without risking a serious disease response. It’s a tried and true method. Maybe it’s not as advanced as mRNA but we know it works! It’s great for poor countries who can store in a standard fridge.


sicklyslick

I find it ridiculous that people would rather take no vaccines over sinovac. People should be happy to get at least something. It's not as good as Pfizer but it is still better than nothing.


rallykrally

>I find it ridiculous that people would rather take no vaccines over sinovac. Blame the western media's fearmongering.


sf_davie

Case in point, check the article title. 350 infected out of 128,000 healthworkers who got vaccinated. The title and article is like a world apart.


nonosam9

> I find it ridiculous that people would rather Not everyone has access to the news and good information. People are scared. And media where they live decided to highlight scare pieces in order to make money, instead of putting the truth out there. It's not always stupidity. Sometimes it's just people don't have good information and are afraid.


Sentrion

> he’s completely asymptotic https://www.dictionary.com/browse/asymptotic


Trekkie0802

Whoops, I stand corrected, I meant asymptomatic.


g1umo

1. out of how many? 2. of those hospitalised, how many died? 3. why does the media blame the variant for the surge in the UK, but the Chinese vaccine for the surge in Indonesia, when both places have a surge in the Delta variant? I wish mods did their job on this sub from time to time


iodisedsalt

I think Indonesia already had something like 11 million vaccinated, so 350 is a really small percentage. Even if all 350 vaccinated individuals were hospitalized, that's like 0.003%.


leixiaotie

I also can be wrong, majority of that 11 million vaccinated is in big cities like Jakarta. And that 350 is only healthcare workers, not civilian which amount to 13k-ish last day. My point is, both facts still don't represent vaccine effectiveness.


iodisedsalt

Indonesia has 270 million people. 11 million is still way off from herd immunity. It's fair to say the majority of the "13,000" per day are not vaccinated. Also, 13,000 per day is the number for those infected, not those hospitalized. As we know, infection with mild symptoms is possible under all vaccines. What we need after 70-80% of all Indonesians have been vaccinated, is the hospitalization rate. Not simply "new cases" of covid.


ricklanadelgrimes

You should teach critical thinking or something there Really give ‘em the gobbagool 🤌🏿


nodowi7373

The objective is to make China look bad. Who cares if more people will die because of the FUD about Chinese vaccines? Better dead than red.


mobugs

Because fear sells


corn_sugar_isotope

what would look different? Serious question. Is there a rule violation? Are mods supposed to expound on stories, or delete stories that may leave the reader with too many questions?


TonySu

This article would be removed for misleading title. Imagine if the same type of article was posted about AstraZeneca vaccines, which has very similar efficacy rates to Sinovac. It’d be gone in a second for being antivax and the poster would probably get warned and/or banned. But since this vaccine is not used in Western countries, the sub doesn’t care, despite it being the majority and/or only option in many Asian countries.


CZrex

Here is an update to this news: [https://jakartaglobe.id/news/sinovac-vaccine-protects-health-workers-from-severe-covid19-in-deltahit-kudus](https://jakartaglobe.id/news/sinovac-vaccine-protects-health-workers-from-severe-covid19-in-deltahit-kudus) .... **"Today, 90 percent of health workers who are self-isolating can return to work and return to serving the community,"** Badai said in a statement on Friday. **"This is encouraging news. In addition, it also shows that the vaccine given to them is really effective in protecting against the worst conditions,"** he said. .... Abdul Aziz Achyar, the director of Kudus's dr. Loekmono Hadi Regional General Hospital, said **a total of 153 health workers at the hospital confirmed to have Covid-19. Only 11 people, or 7.1 percent, needed hospitalization. The other 86 (56 percent) used to be in self-isolation but now ready to work, following the rest of their colleagues who had recovered earlier.** .... Yeah, only 11 people hospitalized out of 153 health workers who was infected from thousands who was contracted in Kudus from delta variant. So the sinovac is ineffective somehow? IDK, man this is seems too far fetch for me. PS: i can't access the article btw, so is it deleted or is it just me?


ReferenceSufficient

How many died? If these healthcare workers didn’t get Covid vaccine the 308 infected would have higher death rate. China bashing again. Check out other non mRNA vaccines Aztrozeneca and J&J. Causing clotting death on healthy younger population.


TheKnightOfCydonia

1/1000000 rate with J&J, how significant. Rate is higher for coagulopathy in young COVID patients.


Purplebuzz

I would think that the viral load these health care workers are exposed to is also quite high.


dumnezero

The bar is at *serious disease and death*. I'm sure that vaccine is less efficacious, but not getting infected at all is not the primary purpose of these vaccines, which is why masks will still be needed.


Orikazu

It's too bad most fail to get this Living through it was the point, not getting sick at all is just a luxury


No_Biscotti_7110

In the US, the CDC has determined that masks aren’t needed if you are vaxxed, and the policy has been in place for over a month and no uptick in cases has occurred.


dumnezero

To quote the BioNTech (Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine) boss (December 24, 2020): ["We need a new definition of 'normal'. The virus will stay with us for the next 10 years. We need to get used to the fact there'll be more outbreaks."](https://www.businesstoday.in/current/economy-politics/covid-19-will-be-around-for-next-10-years-says-biontech-ceo-ugur-sahin/story/425854.html) Masks are a basic tool in this context and it would be silly not to use them.


No_Biscotti_7110

I’ll take the advice of the CDC over big pharma


dumnezero

Make sure you note that down for yourself, for later: >I’ll take the advice of the CDC over big pharma


ComradeH_VIE

You are expecting an average person on the English-speaking website to understand that?


Abiyasad2

This type of vaccine introduce its users' immune system to what an infection could look like, thus preparing the immune system. Next time you got covid, your body will be prepared, preventing life threatening Covid infection. Remember, vaccine is not a cure.


ReferenceSufficient

Read up on Astro Zeneca. J&J and Other non mRNA vaccine, also has low efficacy. It’s not just China vaccine.


jphamlore

Over a five year period, the mRNA vaccines seem the way to go. But if one waits a couple more years for mRNA vaccines to be produced in sufficient supply for the entire world, by then most people will have achieved herd immunity the hard way by getting infected without having any vaccine at all. The Chinese Sinovac and Sinopharm vaccines using inactivated virus is the only way to convert existing facilities with some semblance of vaccine manufacturing capability right now, as opposed to a year and a half from now for mRNA vaccines.


algavez

I'm gonna suggest you to lookup that Manaus Case (capital of one Brazilian State) and reassess heard immunity. It doesn't work well with COVID, and can actually help produce worse variants ( at least it seems, it is difficult to be sure since it was a very uncontrollable caos). So, you're right. We need all the vaccines we can get now.


Typokun

It seems you are confused here. The term Herd immunity is not "just let everyone get it then we'll all be done with it!" As some... nutjobs suggested we do instead of wearing masks. The term Herd immunity just means enough of the population are immune or resistant (by way of vaccine, already having had covid and having antibodies, or just both) to the point where the virus just doesn't have the chance to spread anymore, or extremely slowly, and hence it will not reach the vulnerable population as well as those not vaccinated. Herd immunity is a **goal**, not the means to reach it.


algavez

"...by then most people will have achieved herd immunity the hard way by getting infected without having any vaccine at all." I was referring to this part from the original comment. I'm well aware of the meaning of the term, how bad it is (and "good" if used properly), however this is a almost a pop culture term no, and it will be used frequently outside ideal conditions. I was just pointing out that not only this would be a bad ideia, but it has inadvertently happened already, the aftermatch was terrible, and likely (proving this kind of thing is complicated) lead to the origin of a worse variant (P1).


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m0uthsmasher

That is because the vaccine is coming from evil "China", everything come from there in Western media is bad. Another propaganda.


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notehp

Don't pretend like every lab in the US or elsewhere has sufficient quality control and never needs to be shut down by regulators. Just the other day there were reports about [contaminations of vaccines in the US](https://headlineusa.com/fda-finds-dirty-covid-vaccine-factory-with-contaminated-shots/): > The Baltimore factory hired to help make Johnson & Johnson’s COVID-19 vaccine was dirty, didn’t follow proper manufacturing procedures and had poorly trained staff, resulting in contamination of material going into a batch of shots > The inspectors also reviewed security camera footage, which showed employees carrying unsealed bags of medical waste around in the factory, with the bags touching materials ready to be used to make vaccine batches. And then people come in and argue that you can't let people in poor countries produce vaccines because they can't follow proper manufacturing procedures....


cdxliv

That is a myth, China makes exactly what the client pays for. You want cheap shit, china will make cheap shit. You want high quality stuff with rigarous QC? You have to pay for it.


XxGetBuck123

To be fair, the reason the whole stereotype of ‘Made in China’ exists is because it’s so commonplace around the world, which funnily enough makes it not a stereotype anymore since it’s usually always true.


m0uthsmasher

I am not buying "made in China" either, you gotta think about how these Chinese products get into the market, Chinese product is made as specification provided by those big retailing companies, it is only China able to manufacture these products at the price that the retailing companies negotiated and selling at price that people want to pay. It is the consumer decide the existing of "made in China" product although people always advocate "made in local" but their wallets usually pretty honest.


Water_Bell

Are you ssuming all 100% people were about to get covid. your 1% figure is so manipulative . Even if we takes 10% +ve rate, even then **it's 60% not 6%.** Edit : Since you deleted your reply, i will just add here - if 128000 people weren't vaccinated, obviously all 100% of them won't get infected with covid in this period of time. Even if we assume a high rate of 10% infection. it would be 12,800 people. 6% of 128000 is 7680 (as you mentioned). Furthermore, the article says : >The efficacy rate from trials in Brazil was lower than that found by Indonesian officials, **at 50.7% effective** against symptomatic COVID-19. [Costa Rica rejects delivery of Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine, says it is not effective enough](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/costa-rica-rejects-delivery-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-says-it-is-not-effective-2021-06-16/)


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Eric1491625

>Also: Of the 6% who had the vaccine and got covid, 120 or 30% were hospitalised. THAT does represent something that should be explored. That's not even close to being correct. Firstly, less than 30% of people will get hospitalised from covid even without any vaccine. So 30% is a crazy number you are throwing out here. There were 7,000+ vaccinated people who got covid so 120 would be <2%. Also I don't think anyone would use "dozens" to describe 120. Dozens is probably 50 or so.


Londonforce

>and yes let’s assume close to 100% of healthcare workers at front line are gonna get covid for this exercise This isn't close to accurate in the time period you are looking at


eannasheridan

This is complete fear mongering. 128,000 got the vaccine. This isn’t a sign of a bad vaccine. But of course Reddit jumps at the chance to shit on China.


Minamoto_Keitaro

This is the information i was looking for. "Ok over 300 of how many"


mmm1010

They want the vaccine to fail, people to die from covid, to make China look bad


6896e2a7-d5a8-4032

Lol mate a lot redditers want worse


SCLegend

Bro that’s a very small minority. There are legitimately, many things to criticize China for. But anyone that’s wants people to die from COVID is deranged.


ComradeH_VIE

Welcome to the internet. That is practically the norm for quite a few places.


awkwardness_master

it cannot be, only Russia spreads misinformation about vaccines... >!/s!<


Kinoblau

Which means the vaccine prevented 99.8% of people who got it from contracting covid.


tomsawyer333

This headline is horrible; this is how vaccines work.


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was_promised_welfare

I've been seeing reports about "vaccine diplomacy" and how western countries are giving away the vaccine now to counter the influence of China and Russia donating their vaccines. You'd think a global pandemic might be the opportunity for global cooperation, but no.


FunTao

Nah when western countries give them it’s out of good will and generosity, when China and Russia do it its vaccine diplomacy and debt trap and neo colonialism or something /s


Bakytheryuha

It gets really tiresome seeing that shit. Id appreciate it if they just went mask off and said "Yeah I just want my country to impose its power over weaker countries"


gelinrefira

This is what propaganda looks like.


2wiceashard

Every single thread. lol.


DaddyKoolAid

Not sure what media you were reading, but initially the UK media (and government) was heavily questioning the effectiveness of the vaccines, especially as initially many of the people hospitalised with delta had already had one dose. And it turned out that the vaccinations *were* underperforming against delta in the UK due to how they were being administered, so the UK is now applying them differently by fast-tracking second doses. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-covid-vaccine-indian-variant-herd-immunity/ https://inews.co.uk/news/single-covid-19-vaccine-dose-is-not-enough-to-protect-against-the-indian-variant-says-nervtag-scientist-1016048 https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1426013/Indian-variant-covid-double-mutation-coronavirus-vaccine-effective-evg


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green_flash

It isn't common in Indonesia either. We are talking about "dozens of cases".


Zukiff

Nope it's common, they don't report it probably because it's not the Chinese vaccine. Here in Singapore we use the 2 MRNA vaccines. >The COVID-19 vaccines used are currently Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna . [https://www.vaccine.gov.sg/faq](https://www.vaccine.gov.sg/faq) Of those infected in our biggest cluster right now, 30% are fully vaccinated. UK using the lower efficacy AZ, probably will have it worse than us >He shared that out of the 56 cases in the Bukit Merah View market and food centre cluster, around 32 per cent of people had been fully-vaccinated, while 50 per cent of people were unvaccinated: [https://www.mothership.sg/2021/06/bukit-merah-cluster-kenneth-mak-update/](https://www.mothership.sg/2021/06/bukit-merah-cluster-kenneth-mak-update/)


green_flash

Doesn't say how many were hospitalized. Studies show that very few people who got both shots of the vaccine are hospitalized, even with the Delta variant. That probably applies to all vaccines.


Zukiff

Current active cases in Singapore is 346, 152 are hospitalized. We can probably assume anyone that has been vaccinated is not part of the 152. [https://www.gov.sg/features/covid-19](https://www.gov.sg/features/covid-19)


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serendipitousevent

Alexa, pull up the efficacy rates of different vaccines.


Ckek21

Isn't the whole point if the vaccine to reduce the effects of covid of you get it, not make you immune to it?


loveisrocketscience

Good morning with a nice cup of joe and more propaganda


Zukiff

Pfizer and mordena vaccines are no guarantees of protection either. Here in Singapore 30% of those infected in the biggest cluster are fully vaccinated with pfizer/mordena. >He shared that out of the 56 cases in the Bukit Merah View market and food centre cluster, around 32 per cent of people had been fully-vaccinated, while 50 per cent of people were unvaccinated: [https://www.mothership.sg/2021/06/bukit-merah-cluster-kenneth-mak-update/](https://www.mothership.sg/2021/06/bukit-merah-cluster-kenneth-mak-update/) The Singapore national vaccination program is using the 2 MRNA vaccines >The COVID-19 vaccines used are currently Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna [https://www.vaccine.gov.sg/faq](https://www.vaccine.gov.sg/faq)


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green_flash

> How do you get .92 of a person? Are you familiar with the concept of rounding? When using a number like 32% in statistics, it's rarely exactly 32%. Can as well be 32.14285714% which is exactly 18 out of 56.


Zukiff

I deleted the post because I replied to the wrong post. Here is the clarification [https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/o40804/more\_than\_350\_indonesian\_healthcare\_workers/h2evckg/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/o40804/more_than_350_indonesian_healthcare_workers/h2evckg/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


HaveASit

Source?


Zukiff

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/o40804/more\_than\_350\_indonesian\_healthcare\_workers/h2evckg/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3


HaveASit

Thanks!


Lolwut100494

Man the "China bad" spin from MSM is ridiculous. Clearly the vaccine is effective in cutting down hospitalization and deaths, but they focus on a minority that were infected and hospitalized. No vaccine provides comprehensive protection 100% of the time, even for mRNA shots that have higher efficacy. This is especially true for new strains that are more infectious.


omg_failure

Clickbait title, also China bad! Right guys?


Practical-Visit-2928

So vaccine bashing is okay if it's the Chinese one? Got it.


tommyykl

Remember, media will filter out information and only show what they want you to hear. Glad that the vaccines helping!


weakmoves

There isn't a single vaccine out there that gives protection against covid 19 every single vaccine made right now has seen people still get infected after being vaccinated.


esquilax13

All of the vaccines provide protection against getting infected by covid. Biological immunity is not a binary process. If you are vaccinated and exposed to covid. It is still possible for the virus to reproduce and grow in numbers in your body. However, the vaccine will have trained your body how to fight it off, and most likely it will be an asymptomatic case that will not spread to others, even with a positive test.


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APsWhoopinRoom

We already have enough vaccine doses for everyone in the entire US without the Astra Zeneca vaccine. There's absolutely no reason why we should want to buy more of a less effective vaccine at this point


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APsWhoopinRoom

If it took us six months to get to this point, why are we vaccinating people faster than pretty much every European country (except the UK), Canada, and Australia? There are only a few decent sized countries that are ahead of the US for the % of fully vaccinated people in the country. Germany is only at like 30%, Norway is at 27%, France is at 24%, Canada is at 18%, New Zealand is at 6%, and Australia is at 3%. The US is up to 45.4%, and the UK is just barely ahead at 46.6%. The US is a far larger country than any of the countries ahead of it too. What's your country's excuse? We don't have universal healthcare, and we are blowing you all out of the water right now.


Alphasquad001

All vaccines are inactivated until the mrna vaccine is available in 2020. Did anyone say back then that inactivated flu vaccines were ineffective?


CookieKeeperN2

They actually did. Flu vaccines each year were a gamble in which strain would be flying around each year, and at best it's like 50% effective. It's just that flu isn't as scary as conora for most so people don't pay attention.


damp_s

According to [WHO](https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/KV7Z4W4yEbVl9wzs4Avt6A) the efficacy of the sinovac vaccine at preventing covid is only about ~50%, pretty shit but what it is does well, is it reduces the likelihood of death if you contract “regular” covid by about 80%. I’ve had my 2 doses and am under no illusions that I’m protected from catching anything. But if I do, I probably won’t need ICU care and that’s reassuring. Sinovac’s (deactivated virus)vaccine is readily available and sinopharm’s (I think) mRNA vaccine isn’t quite ready yet. As a way to mass vaccinate 10’s of millions of the population in a country that’s reduced local transmission to pretty much 0, it’s not really a bad cost effective method.


dtta8

~~79% according to WHO actually.~~ Edit: I mixed up Sinovac and Sinopharm. It's Sinopharm at 79% https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-sinopharm-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know


damp_s

Not once does it say 79% anywhere in that article...


gjscut

The data in your source, where is 79%? > A large phase 3 trial in Brazil showed that two doses, administered at an interval of 14 days, had an efficacy of 51% against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, 100% against severe COVID-19, and 100% against hospitalization starting 14 days after receiving the second dose.


phenixxx777420

!


Slayer_Tip

Just pray the virus away.


RoburLC

This should not be a political matter. Is this vaccine fully effective? If not, had that status changed with the emergence of variants? It is important to know.


captaincinders

> Is this vaccine fully effective? No vaccine is 'fully' effective. They all have degrees of effectiveness of infection rates, hospitalisations, varients, doses, age etc


ComradeH_VIE

I suggest you to check other comments. The short version is that facts have been cherry-picking, and the vaccine still works as required


Big_Hubble-Bubble

I hope Indonesians can get vaccinated ASAP. Such a huge population with some densely populated cities like Jakarta


DarkVenus01

This is why I think the mask mandates should NOT be lifted. The vaccines are preventing deaths and lowering hospitalizations, but I don't want to get sick from a variant at all (I'm vaxxed)


RomanArchitect

I've been given SinoVac as well. I'm from Pakistan. It is safe. Besides, it's got WHO's approval. That's what dispelled my doubts about it. Not sure about other Chinese vaccines. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57322504.amp


modsbegae

Vaccine doesn't stop you from getting Coronavirus but it does reduce the chance of developing serious health complications.


39UL

How is this proven? I had Covid in November and felt like I was dying for a week, couldn’t even walk and had to crawl to the toilet. Was off work for a month, fatigue and mind clouding lingered for months. In July my brother who is waiting for a transplant, who goes to dialysis three times a week and in pretty bad health had to go to a larger hospital to have the thing in his arm used for dialysis adjusted. They tested him, twice, for Covid and he was positive. He never had a fever, got sick, felt ill, nothing. So sorry, I just can’t wrap my head around claims that the vaccine makes it less “worse”.


dtta8

Look up the UK studies re: AZ vaccines during the earlier part of the outbreak. Anyway, one way they do it is look at who gets hospitalized or not, and then check their vaccination status. If a lot more people who are vaccinated that still get covid but don't end up hospitalized/dead compared to unvaccinated patients even after other factors are adjusted for, then it means the vaccine makes it less worse.


JuniloG

I had my first dose of Sinovac and I trust it, but I wonder whether I needed another set of dose with a different brand in the future because of the mutations. I heard all about those "mRNA is better" and other similar stuffs and I'm a bit worried


FullMetalArthur

This is as click baity as it comes. The article never mention anyone who is questioning the efficiency of the vaccine.


jimx117

Shouldn't have ordered their vaccines from Wish


is_there_pie

Sinovac is a horrible name for a vaccine.


sf_davie

The name of the vaccine is officially 'CoronaVac'. Sinovac is the company that developed it.


Bran-a-don

Weird how many people in here think this is China bashing but the article just states the vaccine is not as effective as moderns/Pfizer. Are you all shills or just stupid? "The efficacy rate from trials in Brazil was lower than that found by Indonesian officials, at 50.7% effective against symptomatic COVID" I'm no math genius but even I know that 95% efficacy from Pfizer/moderna is a bit more than 50.7%.


qwer4790

worldnews‘s post circle: China Good -> China bad -> US good -> US bad -> Israeli always bad -> Iran good sometimes


sf_davie

It's the fact that the title is trying to paint a bleak picture when in reality, as written by the body of the article, the vaccine is helping the country. 128000 healthcare workers vaccinated, but the headline tried to make 350 look like a major setback. [The Brazil trial](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-01-12/china-vaccine-going-global-with-four-different-efficacy-rates) is often quoted by the media at 50.4%. Other results from large studies include [67% in Chile, 65% in Indonesia, 83% in Turkey](https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/chinas-sinovac-covid-19-vaccine-67-effective-preventing-symptomatic-infection-2021-04-16/)


TonySu

It actually doesn't mention Pfizer or Moderna at all. The issue with the headline is that it says > More than 350 Indonesian healthcare workers vaccinated with China's Sinovac vaccine got COVID-19 and dozens are hospitalized, **raising questions about the vaccine's efficacy on variants** They also conclude the article with > Indonesia recorded over 1.9 million infections with 53,000 deaths since the start of the pandemic. Doctors and nurses accounted for close to 950 deaths. They were the first to receive the Sinovac vaccine in January. This last part is particularly misleading, because unless you read it carefully, it seems like 950 doctors and nurses died after getting vaccinated. But it's actually the deaths since the pandemic started, and not since vaccination was completed. Also for context, this is how Business Insider reports on Western vaccines. * [Real-world data suggest the side effects from Pfizer and AstraZeneca vaccines are not as bad as expected](https://www.businessinsider.com/pfizer-astrazeneca-vaccine-side-effects-not-as-bad-as-trials-2021-4?r=US&IR=T) * [Potentially fatal blood clots are a very rare side effect of AstraZeneca's vaccine, regulators say](https://www.businessinsider.com/astrazeneca-vaccine-side-effects-blood-clots-very-rare-ema-2021-4?r=US&IR=T) * [Panic over AstraZeneca's shot is overblown. It could undermine efforts to end the pandemic.](https://www.businessinsider.com/astrazeneca-vaccine-worth-it-despite-blood-clot-link-experts-2021-4?r=US&IR=T) Note the complete lack of alarm or caution in those headlines.


Craniummon

About Brazil's, here it was controversial, because there are some indications that ANVISA (huebr FDA) was pressured to approval of Coronavac by midia and São Paulo's Governor. Some research says that it was under 50%, but nothing has been proved atm.


sf_davie

It is controversial for other reasons too because the initial rate was calculated to be 62% then it was recalculated to the lower 50.4% by including the very mild cases. There are other more recent studies that put the vaccine well over 50% in Chile, Indonesia, and Turkey.


rallykrally

Those were probably the first jab and not the full jab. We already know the Chinese vaccine isn't very effective until you get the second jab. I get that the western media is on the "china bad" bandwagon but this is getting annoying.


internweb

bad Chinese black campaign by western media